I keep being perplexed by how the Americans do stuff. I am Dutch and my government makes it (relatively) easy to do taxes. We got a website we can go to; it's filled by the government and we just need to verify that it is filled correctly and then click submit. Some people can make adjustments where needed and if needed. You can also let an accountant do it for you but that is optional; but useful if you have had a t…
Open Source Tax Software
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Re: Open Source Tax Software
#82I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…
I feel like this is a kind of XY problem that could be solved theoretically by agreeing on a more streamlined tax-regulation. It will take away the ability to fine tune tax deducts and so forth, but in return we can more easily design software to handle our taxes. I find that not having this automated nowadays with the advancement in computing resources that we have at disposal today is surprising.
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Funny you mention that, the first time I tried to use Credit Karma Tax, either last year or the year before, they punted on me for having lived in two states. I agree with your sentiment, but not resolution. The truest resolution is in simplifying the tax code, which Intuit and co do not want. Edit to add: When CreditKarma gave up on me, I tried FreeTaxUsa. It sounds like a scam I know, but they are top notch, and ch…
> Edit to add: When CreditKarma gave up on me, I tried FreeTaxUsa. It sounds like a scam I know, but they are top notch, and cheap. Highly recommend. Ah! I remember FreeTaxUsa. They have this silly verification thing in their signup. Your email address must be on an "American" domain. Mine is self hosted on some other domain and they literally say it's "foreign". Just checked again and it's still there. Hah... sigh.
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#84Is there something like this for Germany?
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#85I keep being perplexed by how the Americans do stuff. I am Dutch and my government makes it (relatively) easy to do taxes. We got a website we can go to; it's filled by the government and we just need to verify that it is filled correctly and then click submit. Some people can make adjustments where needed and if needed. You can also let an accountant do it for you but that is optional; but useful if you have had a t…
Our brand of conservatism is informed by Calvinism and hard core Capitalism.
Those in charge believe in using religion to control and the purpose of everything is to make someone money.
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#86I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…
Disruption could also come from tax reform. Some countries don't make you figure out things on your own: That's a bit like making a shopper put in the correct prices on each item they're buying and penalizing then for mistakes. A "Price is Right" game-show version of a tax filing system. Some other countries just tell you where you stand because for the vast majority of people a standard filing is all that's required…
The U.S. doesn't make you do this, either. Most people don't itemize deductions. You just plug in the data from your W-2. The percentage of people itemizing was 30%, but with the Trump Tax Cut which capped state and local deductions (i.e. lowered the maximum allowable deduction, effectively increasing taxes on a large number of people) this was predicted to drop to 10%.
If you're itemizing, you're in a minority of tax payers, and in most cases a voluntary minority seeking to minimize your taxes in a way that simply wouldn't be possible elsewhere.
The U.S. also has one of the highest rates of voluntary tax compliance, and hypothetically that might have something to do with 1) ability to itemize and 2) having to sign on the dotted line every year.
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#87I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…
Disruption could also come from tax reform. Some countries don't make you figure out things on your own: That's a bit like making a shopper put in the correct prices on each item they're buying and penalizing then for mistakes. A "Price is Right" game-show version of a tax filing system. Some other countries just tell you where you stand because for the vast majority of people a standard filing is all that's required…
Sadly law makers don't know how to code. If they did they would see what bloated monstrosity of complexity a few simple sounding sentences with some simple sounding exceptions produce. Perhaps a large bill and months of delay could provide enough of a clue.
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disruption could also come from tax reform. Some countries don't make you figure out things on your own: That's a bit like making a shopper put in the correct prices on each item they're buying and penalizing then for mistakes. A "Price is Right" game-show version of a tax filing system. Some other countries just tell you where you stand because for the vast majority of people a standard filing is all that's required…
We could evolve to requiring laws to be implemented as FOSS before they go live. I suspect the right tests could reveal all kinds of bugs, weird edge cases and exploits. Sadly law makers don't know how to code. If they did they would see what bloated monstrosity of complexity a few simple sounding sentences with some simple sounding exceptions produce. Perhaps a large bill and months of delay could provide enough of…
> [U.S.] tax law drafting style follows default logic, a non-monotonic logic that is hard to encode in languages with first-order logic (FOL).
Re: Open Source Tax Software
#89The forms are not super straightforward but not incredibly complex either. For most normal people with a W-2 or 1099/self-employed income, retirement savings accounts, and some brokerage/investment accounts, you should be able to get it done in a weekend of research & work using resources on the internet, referencing the IRS's instructions for their forms, and using your previous year's return as a reference. And less time in future years once you've figured out how it works. You will need Adobe PDF software, but it's libre and a Windows virtual machine with the network connection disabled will solve that if you use Linux on your computer.
It's not for everyone, but if you don't want to support the evil tax industry in the US (there have been a number of posts on HN about this) then it's a good option.
Additionally, you can create an account on Turbotax and fill in all your information (but with fake name, SSN, employer tax numbers, etc.) and it'll tell you the amount of remaining tax obligation / tax return that it calculates. So you can use that to verify that you did everything properly. Turbotax only charges money to actually submit the return through them; even if you would normally require a paid TurboTax plan (e.g. for contractors, living in multiple states, etc.) you can still go through the process and get the final number without paying.
I did this for the first time this spring and was able to get it done in a weekend. I had W-2 and 1099 income/deductions and lived in multiple states last year. From what I can recall, basically the form 1040 is the 'root of the tree'; your W-2 income goes into that and every other taxable/deductible thing you do ends up aggregated into the 1040. The schedules (A,B,C,...) of the 1040 are like the first level child nodes; each one has a different topic(s) like self employment gains/losses, farming/fishing income, etc. so you can skim over them and see what applies to you, then fill out the ones you need to and enter their totals back into the 1040. The schedules will have lines into which you aggregate specific incomes/deductions, and the instructions for the schedules will have details on how to calculate all of that. And for other special deductions there are lines in the 1040/schedules that mention them. I'm not a CPA so don't blame me if you follow those instructions and something goes wrong.