In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban • Hacker News Board

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#31

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:37 AM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #26

Joakal wrote: post #20

It's sad how the British government is responding compared to Norway. Norway: First) Provides support to anyone who needs it. Problem) Mentally unstable bomber/shooter. Solution) We'll continue supporting. Security will get reviewed but not that necessary to implement new laws. Britain: First) Cut back support for bringing up people. Problem) Surprised people riot. Solution) Slam down authoritative fist. So far; 1) I…

I don't think censoring social media is a good idea or even remotely helpful, but these comparisons are beyond ridiculous. The Norwegian attacks were carried out by one person who is already in custody. The British riots arise out of amorphous groups of thousands of individuals who are still at large. They're completely, utterly different.

[deleted]

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#32

Post by Joakal » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:38 AM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #26

Joakal wrote: post #20

It's sad how the British government is responding compared to Norway. Norway: First) Provides support to anyone who needs it. Problem) Mentally unstable bomber/shooter. Solution) We'll continue supporting. Security will get reviewed but not that necessary to implement new laws. Britain: First) Cut back support for bringing up people. Problem) Surprised people riot. Solution) Slam down authoritative fist. So far; 1) I…

I don't think censoring social media is a good idea or even remotely helpful, but these comparisons are beyond ridiculous. The Norwegian attacks were carried out by one person who is already in custody. The British riots arise out of amorphous groups of thousands of individuals who are still at large. They're completely, utterly different.

It wasn't a comparison of problems, it was a comparison of solutions to serious problems.

Nurturing vs authoritarian.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#33

Post by sliverstorm » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:41 AM UTC

zeteo wrote: post #2

> when people are using social media for violence, we need to stop them. Is this the same Cameron who criticized Libya when they shut off the Internet against what, in their view, were violent protesters?

They seem like different issues. I don't think the Libyan protestors were looting, burning, attacking & robbing bystanders... In other words, in Libya they had protestors, in the UK they have rioters and mobs. I could have the wrong impression; I live in neither Libya nor the UK.

There were also accusations that Libya shut off the internet to mask actions of their armed forces against the protestors. Once again, seems like a different beast.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#34

Post by jdminhbg » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:45 AM UTC

Joakal wrote: post #32

jdminhbg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think censoring social media is a good idea or even remotely helpful, but these comparisons are beyond ridiculous. The Norwegian attacks were carried out by one person who is already in custody. The British riots arise out of amorphous groups of thousands of individuals who are still at large. They're completely, utterly different.

It wasn't a comparison of problems, it was a comparison of solutions to serious problems. Nurturing vs authoritarian.

Different serious problems require different serious solutions. The comparison to Norway isn't useful.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#35

Post by doctoboggan » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:50 AM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #33

zeteo wrote: post #2

> when people are using social media for violence, we need to stop them. Is this the same Cameron who criticized Libya when they shut off the Internet against what, in their view, were violent protesters?

They seem like different issues. I don't think the Libyan protestors were looting, burning, attacking & robbing bystanders... In other words, in Libya they had protestors, in the UK they have rioters and mobs. I could have the wrong impression; I live in neither Libya nor the UK. There were also accusations that Libya shut off the internet to mask actions of their armed forces against the protestors. Once again, seem…

But the fear is that given that power, the government will be able to make subjective calls on situations they deem important enough to intervene. There is definitely a line between justified Libyan protests and the violent riots here, but where does that line fall? Do you trust the government to make that call today and (once it's law) forever into the future?

It's a tough question, I know I don't know the answer.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#36

Post by _delirium » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:51 AM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #30

I know half the Internet is going senationalist over this, but please go and actually watch the debate before the knee-jerking spoils this discussion as well. The tone of the debate was actually quite reasonable, and many MPs, including the PM, were vocal about the benefits of social media during this whole sorry affair. Sadly, a lot of people are reading things into it that weren't actually said and then turning the…

> liberal crowd

I think when it comes to free-speech, as opposed to things like taxation or healthcare, there's not really a clear "liberal" contingent, just the amorphous civil-liberties contingent. Includes many libertarians, liberals, and anyone else who opposes the state exercising anything even remotely approaching censorship, in any circumstance, whether it's against "nazis" or "rioters" or "terrorists" or whomever else the emergency of the day is.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#37

Post by GlennS » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 1:53 AM UTC

Joakal wrote: post #20

It's sad how the British government is responding compared to Norway. Norway: First) Provides support to anyone who needs it. Problem) Mentally unstable bomber/shooter. Solution) We'll continue supporting. Security will get reviewed but not that necessary to implement new laws. Britain: First) Cut back support for bringing up people. Problem) Surprised people riot. Solution) Slam down authoritative fist. So far; 1) I…

You're comparing very different situations: in Norway, once the killer was arrested the risk of further damage was low. In the UK, there might be further riots.

If you are dealing with a crisis, I think you should do things more or less in this order, and I don't think we'll be ready to start on #4 for another day or two in the UK:

1) Don't make it any worse.

2) Prevent further damage from happening.

3) Clean up the existing damage.

4) Investigate ways to prevent a repeat occurrence, and implement if a good solution is found.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#38

Post by csomar » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 2:03 AM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #28

csomar wrote: post #23

If you have a good number of citizens that, when some instability happens, goes to the street and fire cars, houses and rub shops, you have a much more serious problem than 100million GBP in loses. During the Tunisian revolution, the police was ordered to leave a 1 million citizen city that I'm living in after a tough day where the ruling party locals where burnt. Although without any security (and before people gath…

I thought about this sort of thing. It almost seems like the underclasses in Britain are less civilized than the people of the countries that have had recent revolutions. However, I also believe that the riots in Tunisia weren't limited to lower class people, and maybe involving a larger section of society in them caused them to be more civilized.

Religion and culture has an important effect in the society. I'm not religious myself, but not a great percentage of people can get enough culture to think in a civilized way. Religion is great because the rules are enforced by the religion and thus the religious person himself and not the state or police.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#39

Post by mattdeboard » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 2:03 AM UTC

ig1 wrote: post #29

abstractbill wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter has both public and private messages. If anyone is taking about monitoring communications on it, I would assume they're talking about the private ones.

Why would you assume that ? - a large amount of the "incitement" that took place caused problems in a large part because it was public in a one-to-many form.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where they said they would only monitor Twitter? Or am I remembering correctly where they used the broad, sweeping term "social networks", which would include Facebook, and I'm sure BBM chat.

Do you live in a fantastical world where governments pass very strictly limited, narrowly defined laws that precisely target one specific problem? Because here on earth the rule is overbroad laws made by ignorant legislators.

Re: In wake of riots, British PM proposes social media ban

#40

Post by ahi » Fri, Aug 12, 2011, 2:06 AM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #28

csomar wrote: post #23

If you have a good number of citizens that, when some instability happens, goes to the street and fire cars, houses and rub shops, you have a much more serious problem than 100million GBP in loses. During the Tunisian revolution, the police was ordered to leave a 1 million citizen city that I'm living in after a tough day where the ruling party locals where burnt. Although without any security (and before people gath…

I thought about this sort of thing. It almost seems like the underclasses in Britain are less civilized than the people of the countries that have had recent revolutions. However, I also believe that the riots in Tunisia weren't limited to lower class people, and maybe involving a larger section of society in them caused them to be more civilized.

British society, like American society, places consumerism above all else. Britain's "underclass" are reminded constantly that they must have consumer product A through Z to be happy and that they will never have them. The poor of Britain are far poorer when it comes to the things that matter in British culture than the poor of Tunisia on the scale of Tunisian culture. Just a thought.