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Open Source Tax Software

ctskennerton.github.io

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Re: Open Source Tax Software

#41

Post by toastal »

xivzgrev wrote: post #19

I worked on tax software and have seen these kind of efforts. Noble, yes. Short lived, yes. It’s relatively easy to make a free 1040 file. The real problem comes from all. The. Edge. Cases. 1) do you support xyz state? 2) what if I lived in multiple states? 3) what if i… And on and on. And it’s not just one and done. Every year IRS and states are changing their shit so you have to go thru and make all kind of updates…

Agreed with edge cases. Last year I tried using free (as in beer) and even cheap softwares, and they couldn't or wouldn't process for Americans abroad or have the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion exemption which meant they were all no-gos for me. Seems like the tax system should be drastically simpler.

Most countries don't tax expatriated citizens. Even with exemptions you still owe for social security and Medicare. It sounds good since many people will want pension in retirement, but Medicare offers vouchers or exemptions abroad. This was likely the precedence used for “historically, we do not offer any healthcare services to those abroad” when asked if overseas Americans would get access to the COVID-19 vaccine.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#42

Post by jjeaff »

thex10 wrote: post #3

This work excites me a lot, but I can’t help but wonder if this should be a government-funded rather than volunteer-driven effort.

The IRS has to program all the rules into their system anyway. If they could simply standardize those rules into a git controlled Yaml file or something better suited, keeping software updated could be made rather easy for open source projects.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#43

Post by junar »

jjeaff wrote: post #40
junar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those features are really only viable at the scale of large commercial tax software, not the efforts described in the submitted post. PDFs aren't exactly used in a standardized way, so trying to make this work for even a fraction of the numerous tax form issuers requires a lot of work, and a lot of ongoing maintenance. You'll need to prioritize the actual tax forms, and annual updates to those first.

I used TurboTax online last year and was pretty happy with it's ability to import 1099 data from several companies I use like vanguard and Ameritrade. So the PDFs aren't standardized but many providers have apis to pull the data. In fact, they may be using something like Plaid that consolidates all the APIs into one.

Well, TurboTax happens to be the most widely used large commercial tax software, and the brokers you mentioned are also quite large and popular. Whatever integration has been done is almost certainly proprietary and not freely reusable.

Hypothetically, even if an API existed, building the integration in your own app also costs FTE hours that are likely drawn away to higher priority tasks.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#44

Post by joshuaheard »

jjeaff wrote: post #37
the_svd_doctor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. But doing the calculation is pretty hard for most people. Add that to the risk associated to making mistakes and most people will probably prefer paying a bit and have a “””guarantee””” that there are no mistakes. (I don’t disagree he. Just pointing it out.)

Yes, and it's not just calculations. It's things like, "if section F line 27 is greater than the total in section B line 12, subtract the amount in section z line 127 from this total and multiply the result by the appropriate tax rate (see long form instructions for form 478B and fill out Worksheet 12C to calculate your appropriate tax rate). This is not a verbatim quote, but solar to what you have to do now to calcu…

I build a spread sheet for all the forms and worksheets that require calculations. FreeFillableForms does some of the calculations for you, and does not have any worksheets. Excel has formulas for everything I have encountered paying taxes, and I have a joint account with stock options and several rental property LLCs.

As a bonus, the spreadsheets are generally reusable, after checking to make sure there are no changes.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#45

Post by jjeaff »

orangepurple wrote: post #13
bsdnoob wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not trust any opensource software and prefer only paid software to build your systems?

Guess who is going to get pulled into court when someone's taxes get screwed up and the IRS comes after them?

Do you think if that happened while using Intuit software, they are going to pull intuit into court? When you prepare your taxes using software, it all looks the same once the IRS receives it. It will show up as self prepared. If you pay a CPA to do it, then they also sign the return. But in either case, you will be responsible for underpaying your taxes and will have to make up the difference. I doubt any of the software companies offer any kind of guarantee.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#47

Post by CheezeIt »

icelancer wrote: post #24
CheezeIt wrote: post #8

No way would I ever trust open source tax software not to mess things up somehow. The paid software has a big incentive to get it right.

Equifax controls as much of our lives as tax software. Possibly more. And there are no penalties for screwing up repeatedly.

What’s your point?

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#48

Post by CheezeIt »

bsdnoob wrote: post #9
CheezeIt wrote: post #8

No way would I ever trust open source tax software not to mess things up somehow. The paid software has a big incentive to get it right.

Do you not trust any opensource software and prefer only paid software to build your systems?

Obviously not, that’s why I specified tax software.

Re: Open Source Tax Software

#50

Post by aniforprez »

umeshunni wrote: post #35
vimsee wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is a kind of XY problem that could be solved theoretically by agreeing on a more streamlined tax-regulation. It will take away the ability to fine tune tax deducts and so forth, but in return we can more easily design software to handle our taxes. I find that not having this automated nowadays with the advancement in computing resources that we have at disposal today is surprising.

Yes, software can be much simpler if the real world wasn't so complex. The reality is that governments use taxation as one of their tools to reward certain behaviors and population segments and to discourage/punish others. Simplifying taxation is taking that power away from governments. Why would any government choose to divest itself of those powers?

I don't think any other country does taxes as awfully as the US. Where I live, there's a government provided portal that has most of the stuff already filled from my employer. It gets "complicated" if I earn income from the side such as investments, contract work etc and even that is just a matter of filling forms on their website in a similar manner to how the author suggests filling fields in an Excel sheet and other fields get the values automatically calculated. If I have refunds pending, I pay nothing. If I have taxes to pay, it redirects to my bank, I pay my taxes and I'm done
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