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AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

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Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and while we will certain learn more later , we may never learn it all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_...

I somewhat understand how applies to math, but is it generalizable to life?

What else is AI than math applied to life.

If Godel binds on math in general, it aught bind especially well to math applied to a (constantly evolving) reality.

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#72
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't because actual DL products solve problems that are not sexy but still works objectively better than traditional ML for most tasks. The best example of this is OCR/Document Intelligence. The old ML approaches of the 1990-2000 are really no match for what we have now. It's gotten to a point where extracting handwritten text is done reliably for very cheap. Same goes for tables and key-values extractions which…

> ... "AI can't do X" until we actually achieve X and then the goalpost is moved. This gets said often but I don't think anybody whose credible in the field actually makes statements like this. Take Chess for instance. In the IBM "Big Blue" documentary from ~2004, they quote journalists as saying "AI can't play Chess as well as humans but if it could, then AI would be solved." Why did the techniques from Big Blue not…

>> The Lighthill Debates on AI specifically talk about why playing games well doesn't really prove anything.

For a bit of context, that is a televised debate between Sir James Lighthill, comissioned by the UK government to write a report (the "Lighthill Report") on the state of AI research, on the one side, and John McCarthy [1], Donald Michie [2] and Richard Gregory [3], on the other side. The Lighthill Report is widely considered to be a principal cause of the first AI winter, of the 1970's, which killed AI research dead for a good decade or so (until the next winter, of the 1980's). The debate at that point was basically just for show as Lighthill had already submitted his report.

Now, I don't know which part of the televised debate you mean when you say that [the debate] talks about why playing games well doesn't really prove anything, but that sounds very much like Lighthill's opinion. On the other side, we have Donald Michie, of course, creator of MENACE [4], the first reinforcement learning system that played tic-tac-toe and was built out of matchboxes [5] [6]. Reinforcement learning is, of course, considered important today.

John McCarthy himself was critical of AI game playing research, particularly on chess. In his response to the Lighthill report [7], he has this to say:

Lighthill had his shot at AI and missed [8], but this doesn't prove that everything in AI is ok. In my opinion, present AI research suffers from some major deficiencies apart from the fact that any scientists would achieve more if they were smarter and worked harder.

1. Much work in AI has the ``look ma, no hands'' disease. Someone programs a computer to do something no computer has done before and writes a paper pointing out that the computer did it. The paper is not directed to the identification and study of intellectual mechanisms and often contains no coherent account of how the program works at all. As an example, consider that the SIGART Newsletter prints the scores of the games in the ACM Computer Chess Tournament just as though the programs were human players and their innards were inaccessible. We need to know why one program missed the right move in a position - what was it thinking about all that time? We also need an analysis of what class of positions the particular one belonged to and how a future program might recognize this class and play better.

McCarthy absolutely did not think that "playing games well doesn't really prove anything". He believed that getting machines to play games[9] better than humans would illuminate the mechanisms of the human mind that allow humans to play chess, and to do other things besides. Chess was, for him, a model of human thinking, the "drosophila of AI" [10], much like drosophila is a model organism for biology research.

McCarthy would not have been happy with today's achievements in AI game playing, such as AlphaGo and family. He would have considered them symptoms of the "look ma, no hands disease", results with no real scientific significance [11]. Michie, who created the term "Ultra Strong Machine Learning" [12] to describe machine learning that improves the performance of the human user would probably have thought the same about today's uses of reinforcement learning.

However, neither of them would have agreed that "playing games well doesn't really prove anything".

>> Why did the techniques from Big Blue not seem to go anywhere?

Note that Deep Blue, IBMI's chess-playing system that beat Gary Kasparov, did not use machine learning. Only good, old minimax and an opening book of moves compiled by chess grandmasters [13]. Minimax only works for board games, and then two-player, zero-sum games with complete information, and so cannot be used outside of chess, go, and other similar games. This is why it did "not seem to go anywhere". It was the kind of AI that McCarthy blasted as having no scientific value.

_______

[1] Like Donald Michie, but in the US.

[2] Like John McCarthy, but in the UK.

[3] I honestly have no idea. Probably important early pioneer of AI.

[4] The "Matchbox Educable Noughts And Crosses Engine".

[5] Michie didn't have access to a computer.

[6] Great material about MENACE here: https://rodneybrooks.com/forai-machine-learning-explained/

[7] "Review of ``Artificial Intelligence: A General Survey''" http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/reviews/lighthill/lighthi...

[8] Oops.

[9] Read: chess.

[10] http://jmc.stanford.edu/articles/drosophila/drosophila.pdf

[11] https://www.wired.com/2011/10/john-mccarthy-father-of-ai-and...

  "Computer chess has developed much as genetics might have if the geneticists
  had concentrated their efforts starting in 1910 on breeding racing
  Drosophila," McCarthy wrote following Deep Blue's win. "We would have some
  science, but mainly we would have very fast fruit flies."
[12] "Machine learning in the next five years" https%3A%2F%2Fdl.acm.org%2Fdoi%2F10.5555%2F3108771.3108781&usg=AOvVaw0rwP_cc1GnNGNs7dBa7Qao

[13] "AI: A Modern Approach" http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/ See chapter 5 "Adversarial Search and Games".

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have beat humans on every single atari game by at least one order of magnitude, and we do that consistently, and it really only took 5 or so years since the first solution that provided tangible results. It has only been 8 or 9 years since GPGPUs were used for ML research. We are also seeing models that are able to generate code given prompts. Given enough representational power, I don't see why a model that learn…

I'll offer an even better deal: If AI surpasses humans at either comedy or film(by total hours of content viewed, or some other metric you propose) by January 2050, I'll buy you a fake meat dinner.

As in the script is generated by the AI?

Or the whole movie?

And comedy, could the AI do standup comedy? Where the jokes are generated by it, rather than the human?

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#75
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "smarter" masks some of the complexity here. If you define it as "higher performance on a task widely considered to require intelligence", then we've had computers that are smarter than humans for at least decades. If you define it as "higher performance on every task widely considered to require intelligence", then I'll take that bet, please.

We have beat humans on every single atari game by at least one order of magnitude, and we do that consistently, and it really only took 5 or so years since the first solution that provided tangible results. It has only been 8 or 9 years since GPGPUs were used for ML research. We are also seeing models that are able to generate code given prompts. Given enough representational power, I don't see why a model that learn…

>> We have beat humans on every single atari game by at least one order of magnitude, and we do that consistently, and it really only took 5 or so years since the first solution that provided tangible results. It has only been 8 or 9 years since GPGPUs were used for ML research.

Actually, only the 57 games in the Aracde Learning Environment, not "every single atari game". It's an impressive achievement and there's no need to oversell it.

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#76

The gold standard for thinking about the limits of AI is the work of Herbert Dreyfus, specifically the books What Computers Can't Do: The Limits of Artificial Intelligence published in 1972, and the revised What Computers Still Can't Do: A Critique of Artificial Reason , published in 1992, and Mind over Machine , from 1986.

Perhaps you meant the fool's gold standard?

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#77
post #39

There's an entire genre of articles which argue that computers can never do X, because X is ill defined. Thing is, half of the time X is only ill defined because the writer neglects to define X well, and for the other half, that the writer can't define X well is no proof that it is impossible to define X well. Here however, if the take the argument of representations in a technical sense, then since a neural network…

In my experience of developing Custom ChatBOT, X = business model or internal process which contain logic or work flow.

For short, X = logic.

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#78
post #10
post #4

There is nothing special about human intelligence. We will have smarter computers in our life time and I'm willing to place bets.

The word "smarter" masks some of the complexity here. If you define it as "higher performance on a task widely considered to require intelligence", then we've had computers that are smarter than humans for at least decades. If you define it as "higher performance on every task widely considered to require intelligence", then I'll take that bet, please.

> higher performance on every task

Even just one task: bringing up a child to be a well-adjusted, productive adult.

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#79
post #76

The gold standard for thinking about the limits of AI is the work of Herbert Dreyfus, specifically the books What Computers Can't Do: The Limits of Artificial Intelligence published in 1972, and the revised What Computers Still Can't Do: A Critique of Artificial Reason , published in 1992, and Mind over Machine , from 1986.

Perhaps you meant the fool's gold standard?

If by that you mean that AI hype is fool's gold, yes.

Re: AI Is No Match for the Quirks of Human Intelligence

#80
The pattern I've seen over many decades is to say "computers can't do X", then when computers do X, they move the goalposts and say well, X wasn't really that hard, it didn't require the kind of intelligence humans have.

A short list of examples:

Chess

Driving

Go

Human level bipedal locomotion

Facial recognition

The list goes on.

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