The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#141

Post by blueflow » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

rndgermandude wrote: post #128

jstanley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I couldn't find any relevant results for "CrewCrew" in the context of the Chaos Communications Congress.

I am not agreeing with the tinfoil "controlled by the CCC president" rhetoric, but a lot of CCC events including their Congress indeed use an all female (identity) volunteer group calling itself "CrewCrew" as security. They are known to be a bit "paranoid" sometimes, can act "overly aggressive" sometimes and like to disguise their faces during "enforcement". That said, I did not have first hand interactions with them…

Until the escalation at 36C3, we thought the incident at 35C3 was: A random guy from the CrewCrew (new security persons) came to our assembly and got offended by VC's domain. They parted without reaching conclusions.

Only after the escalation at 36C3 i learned that:

- that guy at 35C3 was the CCC's president

- seemingly being an exception of the "all-female" rule

- the "CrewCrew" are not just some activists, but some sort of authorized force

- that the incident at 35C3 included a house ban, this came as a surprise to the auditory witnesses

- the president believed that this was Vincent Canfields assembly (it was fuwafuwa by lesderid, there never was a cockmail asm)

The internal CCC email the president wrote in January 2020 consisted mostly of smearing VC because he was one of the "bad guys" and it was justified in beating him and kicking him out. It turned out they actually stole VC's phone and had to give it back later. No details on what actually caused the differences between the president and VC. We can't even rule out a personal feud.

There were rumors that the CrewCrew was not certified for 35a Gewerbeordnung and thus illegal to be official security. Its references were scrubbed from the 35C3 and 36C3 wiki around the same time, in early 2020.

The whole story is very fishy and gave me the last straw to part with the CCC. Excuse my tinfoil hat, but there are some serious things going on in the CCC mothership.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#142

Post by nixpulvis » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:03 PM UTC

si1entstill wrote: post #119

nixpulvis wrote: post #47

Let's use Gender as a quick example, why not? A few years ago, I couldn't have said I thought about it at all. For better and for worse, it wasn't part of the discourse. Now, I'm not all that different, yet it comes up again and again. I'm often forced to choose a side, even when it's all hypotheticals and virtues. I feel forced because online media is permanent, each statement is my closing argument. When the litiga…

> I'm often forced to choose a side, even when it's all hypotheticals and virtues. In what situations are you forced to choose a side? In conversations with your friends/family? At your place of employment (in whatever form that may be)?

Both, but maybe I've been skewed by my experience in Academia where sociopolitical issues are very sensitive these days.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#143

Post by nixpulvis » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #75

nixpulvis wrote: post #47

Let's use Gender as a quick example, why not? A few years ago, I couldn't have said I thought about it at all. For better and for worse, it wasn't part of the discourse. Now, I'm not all that different, yet it comes up again and again. I'm often forced to choose a side, even when it's all hypotheticals and virtues. I feel forced because online media is permanent, each statement is my closing argument. When the litiga…

Social media might be doing you more harm than good? Offline surely isn’t like this for you too is it?

I deleted my Facebook, stopped using Twitter, and even gave up projects on GitHub. I recently wrote a little rant about the death of my iPhone [1]... to be honest, I don't know how to live anymore. As much as I try to solve my problems, I find new ones in isolation. It's complicated and sad.

[1]: https://nixpulvis.com/ramblings/2021-09-30-death-to-an-iphon...

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#144

Post by tstrimple » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

wonderwonder wrote: post #14

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

> People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued.

Except it was only ever "just a joke" for the perpetrators. What we're seeing more of now is the voice of the previously unheard and ignored, and it turns out they don't like being the butt of racist or sexist or bigoted "jokes". This is the same energy as dismissing sexual harassment as "boys will be boys".

"We can't give girls a friendly pat on the ass and compliment anymore. The liberals have taken over and ruined everything!"

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#145

Post by nixpulvis » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:07 PM UTC

silisili wrote: post #124

nixpulvis wrote: post #47

Let's use Gender as a quick example, why not? A few years ago, I couldn't have said I thought about it at all. For better and for worse, it wasn't part of the discourse. Now, I'm not all that different, yet it comes up again and again. I'm often forced to choose a side, even when it's all hypotheticals and virtues. I feel forced because online media is permanent, each statement is my closing argument. When the litiga…

Perhaps it's where I live, but for me - it's just the internet. It doesn't have any resemblance to my reality. As someone who's been on the internet since a teen, watched it evolve, etc, it makes me kinda sad. Because I feel forced out. But that's ok. As online communities, emboldened really by tech companies themselves, try to gain control by silencing dissent via mob behavior or 'canceling', I just find myself leav…

> Or did the internet give them some loud voice that otherwise doesn't exist in person?

Yes, which then allowed them to become very much "real", both online and off.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#146

Post by ladyattis » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

This is why I don't use my legal name or talk about my offline life all that much in social media. I never name drop myself just because I don't want some weirdo online stalking me or combing over my family's own social media posts for some "juicy deets" or whatever to get attention bucks on Twitter or Facebook. It's this kind of thing that really annoys me about the modern internet. Too many people try to know what others are doing when they shouldn't care even in the best of times. I don't wanna know that James Gunn did tasteless jokes about kids and I definitely don't wanna see someone's nudes they sent to their BF/GF. I think at some point social media needs to be forced back into the smaller kind of groups of the late 90s where you either knew folks by their handle or just knew them in real life so you talked online from time to time just as a convenience. Other than that, I don't want my life to be intersecting with strangers online who constantly look to have their two minutes of hate. And I say this as a leftist, trans, and a non-Christian. I'm just not up for the social media nonsense of today.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#147

Post by caeril » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

woodruffw wrote: post #127

c0m wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's an open and virulent racist you should have better proof than a twitter account. I read all the tweets he made this year. He posts on Gab, posted a clip from an offensively named Danish satire film, and generally seems about as unpleasant as I'd expect for someone who owns the type of domains he owns but he does not seem to be openly racist. If you're going to label someone as an "open and virulent racist" yo…

> If he's an open and virulent racist you should have better proof than a twitter account. Sure. Here's vc calling someone who isn't nonwhite a "creature" and implying that they would discriminate against whites[1]. Here's vc hanging out with a bunch of people wearing white nationalist apparel and holding a sign that references a racist meme[2]. > It's unwise to make such extraordinary claims without evidence beyond…

> hanging out with a bunch of people wearing white nationalist apparel and holding a sign that references a racist meme

Getting a rise out of the easily-offended is as old as time. Your Mom jokes go back centuries. Satirizing those who take themselves so seriously that they take offense at words and images is downright Shakespearean. Late 20th century stand-up comedy relied on inducing offense. Andrew Dice Clay was particularly good at this.

The elevation of negative subjective feelings as the primary determinant of moral wrongness in the last couple decades has basically killed comedy.

I'm tickled pink that VC and others are still doing the Lord's work, here.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#148

Post by heywherelogingo » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

My accounts are disposable and disposed of - my "reputation" means nothing to me, and I think people who bought into gamified reputation are suckers. Liberty.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#149

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

spaetzleesser wrote: post #123

andrepd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where and when I grew up, your political opinion was irrelevant to your college admission. You didn't have to demonstrate your committment to the polical cause of the moment to apply. And... is this the case today? Do universities exclude your application or scrutinise your political beliefs?

I have heard from interns that colleges want to see engagement for social justice or diversity causes during the application process. I have also heard that for research grants you need to show “diversity and inclusion” efforts. One guy I talked to from a Nevada school said these are often won by rich colleges who are almost purely white but know how to talk diversity whereas poorer colleges that are actually way mor…

[deleted]

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#150

Post by a_conservative » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

100011_100001 wrote: post #114

a_conservative wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans do have similar echo chambers. My personal experience, as someone who has moved from left to right but still hangs out in a lot of left leaning circles, the right tends to be more tolerant of dissent. It's getting harder to remember life before the internet, but it was largely similar. Different pockets of people had different beliefs and tended to choose an echo chamber. As you said, the circles are bigg…

> the right tends to be more tolerant of dissent. ...some restrictions may apply. Abortion, gay rights, immigrants, any non Christian religion; especially Muslims, policy brutality against people of color, healthcare to all, living wages the list goes on...oh and Biden actually winning the election. However, I am not trying to attack you. To give you credit, media is more extreme and biased, except for specific news…

I simply meant that my experience is that those on the right don't deploy ridicule as much when dissent is expressed. I'm not speaking to the individual issues you listed at all, of course we disagree on some of those and likely agree on others.

This is obviously subjective, but I have spent some time in 12 step groups. Addiction cuts across the normal divisions we have in life. It affects the poor, the rich, every political affiliation, and so on. It does get a person out of their echo chamber somewhat, at least the typical echo chambers a person may have been in. 12 step groups can be their own echo chamber.

I personally transitioned from left to right politically while in 12 step groups. I transitioned from left to right while being a part of a mostly left-wing family. I've seen the condemnation and the ridicule deployed against conservatives. I've deployed it!

At some point, I began to look back at what my own personal experience was with conservatives, and I saw that my ideas of conservatives didn't match up with my experience. The conservatives I had known, didn't talk about tolerance, but they certainly practiced it when a dissenting opinion was expressed.

As a thought experiment: Imagine your views on a core left issue changed. Say you had some personal experience with abortion that pushed you into a more conservative position on this particular issue. Can you tell the people in your life with whom you discuss politics with? Can you talk about it on your social media with as much gusto as you used to talk about your more left-wing positions?

Also, if you look around HN, it's not hard to find comments that are pledging their allegiance to certain ideas before then offering criticism. These comments typically look like this: "Of course, I believe __x__, __y__, and __z__, but I do wonder about this aspect of x sometimes"

Why do they feel like they have to pledge their allegiance to __x__, __y__, and __z__ before offering any criticism?