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New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

pcworld.com

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Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#221

Post by ksec »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #129

I hate it how we went from simple, to simpler to totally complicated regarding computer ports. "Back in the days", it was a bunch of different ports of different sizes and shapes, and each thing had its own cable that fit into that thing only, and into only port only on the back of the pc. Yes, you needed 20 cables, but things were simple. Then came the USB... one cable, one protocol for all.... except video (firewir…

Story from Ars.

I was trying to help a lawyer out and trying to explain why the $5.00 USB-C cable he'd bought from Amazon wasn't delivering 4K video to his expensive monitor AND powering his laptop too.

Me: OK: so its a USB-C cable, but its not a high data rate USB-C cable.

Him: But, its a USB-C Cable.

Me: but, no, not all USB-C cables are high speed cables. And some of them can't do high speed and power delivery

Him: but... its a USB-C cable: it plugs into the port.

Me: Um... just because it plugs in, doesn't mean its going to work. You can have USB-C cables that are actually slower than the old USB ports.

Him: but.... shouldn't it just work?

And so on. For... 15? more minutes? maybe 30? I finally got him to buy a "proper" belkin USB-C cable . Which was bought from a company that should be anonymous, but lets just say that a "refurbished" cable was shipped, which, surprise, surprise ,didn't work, for ANYTHING.

This basically sums up everything that is wrong with Tech thinking vs User Thinking.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#222

Post by djur »

javajosh wrote: post #220
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

• Cables that can transmit high power have to be better at coping with high power. • Cables that can transmit lots of data have to have more / better / shorter wires.

This implies all USB-C cables could be replaced with 1 super-cable.

A thick, short, relatively inflexible, and expensive one.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#224

Post by lordlimecat »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #129

I hate it how we went from simple, to simpler to totally complicated regarding computer ports. "Back in the days", it was a bunch of different ports of different sizes and shapes, and each thing had its own cable that fit into that thing only, and into only port only on the back of the pc. Yes, you needed 20 cables, but things were simple. Then came the USB... one cable, one protocol for all.... except video (firewir…

USB-C PD cables will work for your new laptop same as the old laptop. I can bring a single power brick (with 3 USB outputs) and charge a macbook and a windows laptop and my phone-- all at once.

Will it support higher wattages? Maybe not: the cables have to advertise their supported wattages. But maybe that's preferable to years gone by with shady USB cables that would happily cook your phone due to bad wiring.

QC is a red herring here, as it was never a USB standard. Some vendors decided to piggyback on a standard connector with a goofy protocol: as if some motherboard / switch vendor decided that the PS2 connector should also be used for a high-end network connector as well.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#225

Post by tzs »

USB-C needs two things to make it less confusing:

1. There needs to be a small, inexpensive device that:

A. You can plug into a USB-C port and it tells you what that port is capable of as far as power delivery, data rates, and data protocols go.

B. You can plug a USB cable into the device and it tells you the power, data rates, and data protocols that the cable can handle.

2. There needs to be inexpensive true USB-C hubs. It needs to be possible to have computers that only have USB-C ports, peripherals that only have USB-C ports, and only USB-C to USB-C cables to hook the peripherals to the computers.

Right now if you have a computer with N USB-C ports and M peripherals with USB-C ports and M > N, you generally have to use a hub that hooks to peripherals via USB 3 A ports, and so you need USB-C to USB-A cables.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#226

Post by lordlimecat »

ksec wrote: post #221
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #129

I hate it how we went from simple, to simpler to totally complicated regarding computer ports. "Back in the days", it was a bunch of different ports of different sizes and shapes, and each thing had its own cable that fit into that thing only, and into only port only on the back of the pc. Yes, you needed 20 cables, but things were simple. Then came the USB... one cable, one protocol for all.... except video (firewir…

Story from Ars. I was trying to help a lawyer out and trying to explain why the $5.00 USB-C cable he'd bought from Amazon wasn't delivering 4K video to his expensive monitor AND powering his laptop too. Me: OK: so its a USB-C cable, but its not a high data rate USB-C cable. Him: But, its a USB-C Cable. Me: but, no, not all USB-C cables are high speed cables. And some of them can't do high speed and power delivery Him…

I'm going to hazard that much of the punchline is due to terrible QC / fraud problems on the shipper's website. It would not be a former bookseller named for a South American river, would it?

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#227

Post by function_seven »

thermin wrote: post #196
Ginden wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> were barrel plugs of slightly different diameter Some of them had the same diameter, so accidentally plugging 12V to 5V port could fry your device.

True! I literally own two identical-looking (to the most minute details of the plug itself) barrel plug chargers (one for the vacuum, the other for the elliptical trainer). One is 18V, the other is 9V, both 500mA At least I'm not afraid that the 65W USB PD charger will fry my phone lol

I think I can one-up you :)

Many years ago I had two Linksys devices. A router and an access point. They were both that blue and gray chassis style. (Like the original WRT54G, except these both predated that model).

They had the same size barrel connector. I was fumbling around under my desk getting everything connected when I let the magic smoke out of one of them. Turns out I gave the 9V unit 18V from the other’s wall wart.

That may also have been the day I learned the phrase “magic smoke”

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#228

Post by dspillett »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #195
thermin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of doom and gloom here; let's see if it really got that bad. >You need a PD charger and not a QC charger... Impossible, all USB-C QC chargers are also USB PD chargers. >into the correct usb port to charge the laptop The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet). >buy an original charger for your laptop Good! Now you have a USB PD charger that covers your…

Not taking exception to any of your points - honestly, I think that while this new USB world is confusing, it is much better than it was in the day of the barrel plugs, especially not that everything is becoming USB-C. Just taking exception to this one point: > The port is either marked (everything but MacBooks) or doesn't matter (MacBooks, pretty sweet). Except that even when there shouldn't be a right choice, there…

Direct link to the SO post and answer that the extremetech page paraphrases, for those who don't consent to being tracked left/right/centre and would prefer not to click hundreds of times to say so: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/363337/how-to-find...

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#229

Post by lordlimecat »

ksec wrote: post #219
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #129

I hate it how we went from simple, to simpler to totally complicated regarding computer ports. "Back in the days", it was a bunch of different ports of different sizes and shapes, and each thing had its own cable that fit into that thing only, and into only port only on the back of the pc. Yes, you needed 20 cables, but things were simple. Then came the USB... one cable, one protocol for all.... except video (firewir…

I am surprised this is the top upvoted comment on HN, in the past anything suggesting USB-C complexity was not the right solution and the old days of simple cable usage were better always get downvoted or intense disagreement. Sometimes it is hard to judge the sentiment of HN. Rumours suggest Apple will go back to Magsafe ( hooray ) and offer USB-C as additional functionality. That way the mental model is simple. You…

The fact that USB-C is a bloated and complex standard does not imply that other solutions are better. Magsafe is only nice to the extent that all Apple laptops used it, so if you were in the apple world and never lost your $50 charger it was fine.

But in the end it was Yet Another Laptop Charger, and it made travelling a pain for anyone with multiple laptops of different make. The current status quo is not perfect but it is much better than it was.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#230

Post by kabdib »

lordlimecat wrote: post #226
ksec wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Story from Ars. I was trying to help a lawyer out and trying to explain why the $5.00 USB-C cable he'd bought from Amazon wasn't delivering 4K video to his expensive monitor AND powering his laptop too. Me: OK: so its a USB-C cable, but its not a high data rate USB-C cable. Him: But, its a USB-C Cable. Me: but, no, not all USB-C cables are high speed cables. And some of them can't do high speed and power delivery Him…

I'm going to hazard that much of the punchline is due to terrible QC / fraud problems on the shipper's website. It would not be a former bookseller named for a South American river, would it?

Could also be a site named after what came first, before the chicken. Those folks are quite happy to keep scam sellers on their platform.
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