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New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

pcworld.com

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Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#211

Post by drstewart »

ziml77 wrote: post #181
drstewart wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's confusing about "USB C to Lightning Cable MFI Certified iPhone Cable Fast iPhone Charger Cable 20W PD 3/6/10FT Type C Charging & Syncing Data Compatible iPhone 12 Pro Max Mini 11 X XR XS 8 P iPad iPod （White)"?

That isn't a USB problem, that's an Amazon problem.

I thought about calling that out, but it's really both - the reason that these sellers create these horrible titles (which Amazon enables and should address) is because customers don't have a clue what cable they should be buying. If buying a USB cable were dead simple, there'd be much less need for your average consumer to have to specifically search for a cable they know will fit their device (e.g. "fast charger for iPhone")

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#212

Post by gumby »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #59
gumby wrote: post #23

In classic USB committee style, they try to do the right thing and still bungle the naming/marketing. Just like the absurd “hi-speed/super speed” debacle, they fail to mention what people really want to know: “Will this drive my monitor?” — bandwidth tells me most of what I need to know but to the average user it makes no sense. “Is this a fast cable for my external drive”? “Is this really expensive cable overkill fo…

> most people will have to guess, and will get the more expensive one “just in case” Good. The more full-features and the less underfeatured USB cables are bought and found around - the better for everyone. I don't buy/grab a USB cable "for the drive" I expect it to do the job every time I happen to need a USB cable. In fact I'd like a single ultimate USB-n-All logo to exist which would mean the cable is fully and re…

> including extensions like Thunderbolt

Thunderbolt isn’t an extension, it’s USB4.

(Of course like all things USB that’s a correct but inadequate answer as straight USB4 isn’t required to support the full TB 4 bandwidth).

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#213

Post by ziml77 »

lolsal wrote: post #161
thedrbrian wrote: post #96

So it’s good that the fruit company are finally going to be forced by the EU to implement USB-C on their phones at same time as telling me that I need a matrix to explain which usb cable I need.

I share this opinion. I'm deep in the Apple camp but it never bothered me that they didn't jump on USB standards. They are a complete mess and if I plugged a shoddy cable into my device and fried it I would be super pissed at Apple for putting me in a position to make that mistake. I don't charge my recent generation MacBook with anything other than the Apple charger for this exact reason.

How is a poorly made cable Apple's fault? Apple could make a proprietary connector with an apple shaped plug on each end. Yet you could still end up with a dead device because someone made a cheap clone cable with an internal fault that shorted the data line to power.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#214

Post by thermin »

bradfa wrote: post #153
a9h74j wrote: post #135

The new logos show the word 'certified'. Wait for the "super-certified" and "ultra-certified" USB logo variants in two years, to help clear up the newly-latent confusion. One new logo shows the word 'charger'. Wait for the "super-charger" and "ultra-charger" and "really really a charger" variants in three years, to help clear up that newly-latent confusion. Leibnitz had a hypothesis that all one needed was one base w…

I assume you'll only be able to legally use these logos on your products and packaging if you actually pay for certification. Most USB devices/charges/etc aren't certified today, I don't see this new logo scheme changing that. Certification costs money, and you might fail. No consumer really cares (or probably no consumer understands) what buying a "certified" USB thing even means. If your existing USB things don't h…

Also, no certification for anything with QuickCharge, Anker PowerIQ and whatever Mediatek's one is called.

Only pure USB PD chargers can get certified.

Anker for example makes only a handful of such chargers, and none in the brand new Nano II series are certifiable.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#215

Post by ClumsyPilot »

sokoloff wrote: post #157
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've rebutted your own point there, laptops cost hunders or thousands, whats with $2.99 power supply? You spill coffee on the laptop and the power brick burns your house down? I shorted many laptop power supplies while using them to test LED's strips, all of them seemed to have current limiting.

I don't think that the only (or even most common) source of power supplies in people's houses are from the OEMs of laptops. In an alternative timeline where DC barrel jacks were the standard form factor, you'd have just as many sellers of the cheapest possible power supply in that form factor as you do in the USB-A form factor today. Engineering choices have to take into account the reasonably foreseeable uses and mi…

'In an alternative timeline where DC barrel jacks were the standard... having current relating to the barrel diameter seems reasonable.'

There are too many possible variations, I have 6 devices in my house, and their power supplies are 130W, 65W, 45W, 25W, 18W and 10W. You would have waay to many barel diameters. The key benefit is using a larger power supply to charge smaller device.

If you want a standard that is usable, you have to have features like current limiting

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#216

Post by kps »

david422 wrote: post #209
dionian wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus USB-C doesn't require a correct orientation, you just put it in and it always fits. Maybe underrated but to me it's worth a lot...

I have some USB C chargers that only charge in 1 orientation. I don't know if it's my phone, or the cable, or what, but for me this isn't true.

Same is true of Apple's Lightning. It looks symmetrical, but electrically it isn't.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#217

Post by jeroenhd »

y4mi wrote: post #125
suvelx wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's supported is indeed a mess... I recently moved my desk between rooms. After setting everything up only one monitor seemed to work. Tried multiple DP cables plugged things in and out with things in various state of power. Eventually gave up and chalked it up to karma and either having a dead monitor or dead dock. Unplugged my laptop to go work in the lounge for a bit, came back later and plugged it in again ama…

I've never seen a laptop that didn't label the thunderbolt capable ports, are you sure that wasn't just you not paying attention? Or do you honestly expect all ports to be thunderbolt capable? If so, you'd have to expect a massive increase in price for that

I used to assume they the little thunderbolt next to USB-C plugs indicated that those are the charging ports. Now I'm not so sure anymore.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#219

Post by ksec »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #129

I hate it how we went from simple, to simpler to totally complicated regarding computer ports. "Back in the days", it was a bunch of different ports of different sizes and shapes, and each thing had its own cable that fit into that thing only, and into only port only on the back of the pc. Yes, you needed 20 cables, but things were simple. Then came the USB... one cable, one protocol for all.... except video (firewir…

I am surprised this is the top upvoted comment on HN, in the past anything suggesting USB-C complexity was not the right solution and the old days of simple cable usage were better always get downvoted or intense disagreement. Sometimes it is hard to judge the sentiment of HN.

Rumours suggest Apple will go back to Magsafe ( hooray ) and offer USB-C as additional functionality. That way the mental model is simple. You want, fast, full speed usage of your Laptop you use the original charger. If you use USB-C to charge, dont expect it to keep you full voltage given it depends on both cables and charger.

I have also wanted USB-C cable to simplify into two model instead of giving 6 options.( if I remember correctly, may be more in the newer 2.1 specification ) Just 2, thinner cable = (may be 30W), and thicker cable is Full USB4 + 240W capability.

Right now you can even have USB-C cable without data lane. Although no longer possible with USB-C spec 2.1, but that doesn't solve the problem as there are no mandatory requirement to force the usage of newer spec.

It really is a bag of hurt. USB should now stands for Universally Silly Branding.

Re: New USB-C logos make picking USB cables, chargers less confusing

#220

Post by javajosh »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #201
javajosh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's possible that we standardize on the "hole" (USB-C) and then make little square things with a male side and a female side that plug into the cable and into each other to add capabilities to the signal path. Each of those square things would have a name and an icon and every device would be characterized by a list of these widgets. (In part I propose this to validate whether this is the correct mental…

• Cables that can transmit high power have to be better at coping with high power. • Cables that can transmit lots of data have to have more / better / shorter wires.

This implies all USB-C cables could be replaced with 1 super-cable.
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