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The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

media.ccc.de

21–30 of 219 posts

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#21
While I don't think this is a positive trend by any means, I try to take a broader historical view of this. It is only after the second industrial revolution and the invention of affordable long-range transportation technologies like automobiles and trains, that non-conformity and privacy and true individualism were ever a realistic expectation of anyone, and even then you're talking a tiny global elite. Meanwhile, for the rest of human history and in less privileged societies, people have been living in tiny groups where everyone knows everyone, and your entire life has always been based on social credit and relied upon conformity to your particular kin group's cultural traditions and expectations.

Relative to this historic norm, I don't think globalization and data hoovering is resulting in social cooling. The real issue is people are now being asked to conform not to the social norms of their parents that they were indoctrinated in from birth, but whatever becomes dominant in their online communities, and those norms may be less familiar and less stable, so conforming to them is less comfortable and more difficult.

You can sort of see this effect in the existing comments. "It used to be fine to say X, now you can't." We've always been conformists. That's how communities work. But people expect somewhat stable rules they can conform to. The unique aspect of the chilling effect we're seeing today is that people can believe they did something perfectly in line with norms, but then the norms change or they become part of a new community with different norms and some record of what they already did thinking it was okay is now no longer okay.

The thing that is unsettling to people is the rate of social change. It's not that they're being held to some standards of behavior. Everyone does that and everyone expects that. We never have been and never will be free to just ignore all laws and norms.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#22

Conformity has been a stronger pressure in North American society ever since 9/11.

Longer than that. Think back to the 1950s and McCarthyism.

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resource...

It's back, only it isn't just about rooting out Communists anymore.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bonus Point: The CrewCrew (Congress Security) is a barely documented all-female "security" gang. Men are not allowed to join. There are rumors that the President of the CCC controls it directly. Questions of accountability are still not answered.

Are you sure? I couldn't find any relevant results for "CrewCrew" in the context of the Chaos Communications Congress.

Thats why i said "barely documented". Its mentioned on https://help.ccc.de/security/index.html and definitely present at the congress and related events like the camp, they wear characteristic shirts.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#24

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

Where do you draw the line though? Are we never allow to criticize someone for their opinions or "jokes", regardless of content or context?

It's easy to just state "People should be able to make jokes or have a bad day." and while maybe that's true, I don't think we should be able to brush off all behavior by just labeling it a "bad day".

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#25

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

There’s the other side of the spectrum as well: what the influencers seek to gain by amplifying criticisms for any odd remark.

Just think of the whole anti-vaccine movements and the spread of misinformation. Folks come out of the woodwork and claim a myriad of side effects but they have no background to scientifically vet the published vaccine research.

Influencers leveraging fear and confusion as a way to amplify bias and shame people making positive comments on a vaccine.

And this generates them massive followings and potentially increases “social status”.

Curiously I’m seeing somewhat of a proportional trend: as peoples ability to amplify misinformation increases, so does the value of censorship. This is kind of scary to be honest—to say that censorship has inherent value in our society.

All it takes is one climate-science denier to change 50% of the population’s opinion. Or to convince the public that one pro-vaccine comment is the scourge of humanity.

EDIT: Just got a downvote and reflecting on how the down-vote makes me feel; how should I proceed? Should I defend my comment? Do I want more social karma on this website? Am I being punished for my opinion. How’s that for some introspection…

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#26

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

Where do you draw the line though? Are we never allow to criticize someone for their opinions or "jokes", regardless of content or context? It's easy to just state "People should be able to make jokes or have a bad day." and while maybe that's true, I don't think we should be able to brush off all behavior by just labeling it a "bad day".

You draw the line at where it has an actual, measurable impact on other people. “Joe Schmoe has an opinion you don’t like” doesn’t impoverish anyone, it doesn’t prevent anyone from getting food or housing or any other need. It’s just a person having an opinion.

Going into hysterics over trivial nonsense that ultimately doesn’t matter is not helping anyone. It’s not making the world a better place. Quite the opposite.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#28

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

The problem is not, people making mistakes.

The problem is, people making mistakes and saying they weren't mistakes. Or they give non-apologies.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#29
post #12

Pretty rich, coming out of an organization that assaulted and chased Vincent Canfield out of CCC for . . . . owning trollish domain names. I'm sure the presenter doesn't necessarily share the Congress's values, but it's funny nonetheless.

Are you attacking the presenter or CCC? On first read it might seem as you are mixing them together and it can be quite unfair to the presenter if you are only mad at CCC.

Re: The reputation economy is turning us into conformists (2017) [video]

#30
post #28

Social media has massively amplified the penalty for making a mistake or offhand remark. People used to make tasteless jokes all the time and it was treated as it was, just a joke and life continued. Now anything out of the pale that catches the attention of some sort of influencer spells doom. Anyone caught at a bad moment on camera is pilloried, made out to be the anti christ and have people actively seeking out th…

The problem is not, people making mistakes. The problem is, people making mistakes and saying they weren't mistakes. Or they give non-apologies.

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