Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#431

Post by GekkePrutser » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:47 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #317

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

Hit the nail on the head there. It’s impossible to actually get what was the damn promise of Facebook to begin with, and instead everyone gets practically drugged with crap because it makes Mark more money.

Facebook was actually pretty good when it just showed me my friends posts and nothing else. But when they moved to their 'timeline' and started fiddling with algorithms that try to decide what I want to see, they got it all wrong and it became a chore to wade through it all.

I don't understand how they think an algorithm can decide better what I want to see than me myself (by adding friend and blocking the ones that irritate me). In the end they lost me as a customer(or... Product :) ) altogether and I assume that's not their end-goal.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#432

Post by GekkePrutser » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

worldsayshi wrote: post #414

mszcz wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the mountains of odorless excrement I started seeing on facebook, this was the other reason I quit. It became unusable because once I scrolled past something it was next to impossible to find it again by either scrolling up or searching. Instead of seeing what people were up to I started seeing things they thought would keep me on the platform for as long as possible. Looking at it now, at least to me, it…

I'm curious if when most people say they "quit" Facebook they removed their account or if they just stopped using it. It feels like most people I know has stopped using it, except for messenger, but almost no-one has actually removed or closed down their account.

I did close mine. But yeah it happens a lot.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#433

Post by robertlagrant » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:50 AM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #88

canada_dry wrote: post #31

> She also sifted through the company’s internal social network, called Facebook Workplace,...for years the company has been tightening access to sensitive material. Of course FB's highest priority order of business: lock down Facebook Workplace and put much tighter controls in place for disseminating internal documents.

https://workplace.com/security Those claims about privacy and security are certainly believable. Facebook has only leaked a billion or so profiles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Breaches Yes, this seems like a prudent choice for companies to use Facebook, excuse me, "Workplace", to manage internal data. Heck, why does Facebook need to sell ads, they could just sell "Workplace". The service seems to be workin…

They do sell Workplace!

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#434

Post by broeng » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:58 AM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #431

taurath wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hit the nail on the head there. It’s impossible to actually get what was the damn promise of Facebook to begin with, and instead everyone gets practically drugged with crap because it makes Mark more money.

Facebook was actually pretty good when it just showed me my friends posts and nothing else. But when they moved to their 'timeline' and started fiddling with algorithms that try to decide what I want to see, they got it all wrong and it became a chore to wade through it all. I don't understand how they think an algorithm can decide better what I want to see than me myself (by adding friend and blocking the ones that…

"You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!" - Eagles

;-)

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#435

Post by nsajko » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

p49k wrote: post #428

Socketier wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

I find the opposite; YouTube is on a constant mission to pull me into the world of right-wing videos with angry titles and antivax propaganda. If you browse YouTube with cookies disabled or within a cookie fence, you can see that such manipulation is the default behavior. For a significant percentage of videos, the very first set of suggestions is manipulative. For the others, perhaps the first set of suggestions is…

You're mostly correct, but I'm guessing you don't use the feature of marking videos as not interesting - it really helps, to the degree that I don't get suggested almost any right-wing videos of the disgusting kind even when I listen to music popular in those circles, as evidenced in the comments sections (I prevailingly use YT for music). Now, if only there was an option to filter out the nationalistic comments (insubstantial comments calling for "unity among brethren" and similar), too.

One has to log in to benefit from this, though.

However, most YT advertisements that get served to me are scams the last few months.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#436

Post by krrrh » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

manquer wrote: post #254

matheusmoreira wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it will become an arms race It already is. > starting with technically ( operationally difficult) solutions like hosting ads first party Already happening. Those ads are still getting blocked. > There is simply too much money today in it for the industry to go away quietly. Agreed. We need to drive them out. > issue of ad's itself can sadly not be controlled with ad-blocking only Why?

> Why ? Because it is asymmetric battle. Content Platforms ( not only digital) already insert native advertising or do product placement, these are harder or impossible to block technically, and quite hard cognitively to differentiate as well. Also Google is removing web APIs and actively making its browser poorer and controlling the web standards that is making it increasingly technically difficult to block ads, it…

Adblocking also works pretty well on Safari, even better since iOS 15 added extensions.

It’s pretty easy to install apps like 1Blocker and NextDNS on an iPhone and eliminate nearly all ads. More importantly, the platform automatically prevents tracking [0] “across other companies apps and websites” without explicit opt-in since April, and Safari has already been blocking trackers for a couple of years (the above link to Seattle Times blocked googletagmanager.com, google.com, chartbeat.com, amazon-adsystem.com, with default settings, and no additional purchases).

On top of this the many iOS users who already pay for iCloud+ to get access to enough storage now have an onion router service available in beta that hides IP addresses from websites. I’ve been using it for a couple of weeks and had no issues. [1]

I agree that it’s an arms race, and as Facebook and Google see ad revenue drop from users who have ad blocking enabled, they’ll grind the remaining ones even harder.

[0] https://www.seattletimes.com/business/technology/facebook-no...

[1] https://developer.apple.com/support/prepare-your-network-for...

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#437

Post by Socketier » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:08 AM UTC

p49k wrote: post #428

Socketier wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

I find the opposite; YouTube is on a constant mission to pull me into the world of right-wing videos with angry titles and antivax propaganda. If you browse YouTube with cookies disabled or within a cookie fence, you can see that such manipulation is the default behavior. For a significant percentage of videos, the very first set of suggestions is manipulative. For the others, perhaps the first set of suggestions is…

That being said, I live in the UK. We know it's going to base its default recommendations based on your perceived location.

I personally found that I needed to make an account to get away from the horrendous default recommendations. And allow it to use some data and not clear my cookies etc.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#438

Post by temp234 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

lanevorockz wrote: post #411

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

The reason the algorithm does this is simple, they want to trigger an obsessive compulsive behaviour. The irritating content provokes you to engage and that's how a lot of their profit is made.

You are right that Facebook gets engagement by irritating people, but this isn't an example of obsessive compulsive behavior on the part of the user, just negativity bias maybe. OCD is a specific and potentially life-ruining condition if it goes untreated. It takes people years and years to get diagnosed because almost nobody knows how to recognize OCD or thinks that it's something it isn't and the longer OCD goes untreated the harder it is to fix. I don't think most people mean anything malicious by calling any old high standard or repetitive action OCD but it's really worth getting a clear understanding of what OCD is because maybe you'll help save another person, or even yourself, from pure living hell. https://www.madeofmillions.com/conditions/obsessive-compulsi...

Mindfulness/awareness practice sometimes is used as part of OCD treatment as a resource alongside ERP, and mindfulness is broadly useful to people, and might be good for getting away from a negative feed. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31505967/

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#439

Post by snomad » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

Socketier wrote: post #425

erlich wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is exactly the same. You have to install a browser extension to block politics from your suggested videos. Twitter is great because they have “blocked words”. I maxed out my 200 words though and have to constantly swap them. It’s undoubtedly true that they make huge money from hate and divisiveness. This is not whistleblowing though. They are not breaking laws. And everyone already knows this. People can choo…

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

Check out elsagate on reddit... https://www.reddit.com/r/ElsaGate/

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#440

Post by llamaimperative » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 11:25 AM UTC

Grieving wrote: post #237

ethanbond wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are much less concerned about the unarmed rednecks taking selfies than they’re concerned about the armed folks searching the grounds for certain representatives, the people planting pipe bombs around DC, and anti-government militias comprised heavily of former military and law enforcement. Oh yeah, said militia members stashed guns at a nearby hotel (according to their own testimony and video footage). This co…

You're talking about a small group of Oath Keepers in an otherwise peaceful protest. But I'm curious, why do you think Stewart Rhodes was never arrested? Would it make more sense given the context that the boogaloos behind the Whitmer kidnapping plot turned out to be FBI agents, as did the leaders of other right-wing groups including the Proud Boys and Atomwaffen Division? Who does the right-wing terrorism scare serv…

Right-wing terrorism scare? We all watched angry mobs attempt to disrupt the peaceful transition of power on live TV. These are the same people who proudly fly the flag of literal traitors to our country and call the press the “enemy of the free state.”

If all it takes for your movement to attempt to kidnap elected officials or disrupt transfer of power is a few undercover agents nudging along, your movement is a huge problem.