Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#421

Post by mszcz » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 9:45 AM UTC

bihaqo wrote: post #389

mszcz wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the mountains of odorless excrement I started seeing on facebook, this was the other reason I quit. It became unusable because once I scrolled past something it was next to impossible to find it again by either scrolling up or searching. Instead of seeing what people were up to I started seeing things they thought would keep me on the platform for as long as possible. Looking at it now, at least to me, it…

Yes! I always wanted smart feeds to have "search in the posts you've seen" feature, why can't they just do it?

I'd guess that it's better for engagement for you to keep looking for it for minutes on end. Who knows, maybe you'll happen upon just the right, rage-inducing, useless post that might keep you on for longer.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#422

Post by erlich » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 9:47 AM UTC

cblconfederate wrote: post #323

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

that's also the reason why facebook's moderation should be considered political manipulation: Facebook's raw material, user posts, cover all sides of the political spectrum, giving facebook the ability to shape the discussion to whichever direction they like

Which is why maximizing profits is a good thing. It’s unbiased.

These whistleblowers are actually arguing for moderating to their political world view. Extremism is on both sides.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#423

Post by atraac » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

I recently had an issue with Facebook feed similar to yours. I've suddenly had my feed full of... Beatles fanpages. All kinds of 'old music' fanpages, Beatles, Queen, Nirvana etc. I don't even listen to them, I have never liked any of them, hell, I didn't even google anything like that. For last 2 months I've specifically marked every such suggestion as Not relevant. And it still shows me that stuff. Every, single day... Every 2nd or 3rd post is a suggestion of some page that praises Freddie Mercury or some other 'legendary' band, singer, performer. I just don't get it...

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#424

Post by Maarten88 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

erlich wrote: post #418

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

YouTube is exactly the same. You have to install a browser extension to block politics from your suggested videos. Twitter is great because they have “blocked words”. I maxed out my 200 words though and have to constantly swap them. It’s undoubtedly true that they make huge money from hate and divisiveness. This is not whistleblowing though. They are not breaking laws. And everyone already knows this. People can choo…

> If things should be changed, the public should vote to regulate.

How can the public form an opinion if the information they get about it is skewed by the affected companies?

What if their politicians get “donations” from the companies that need regulation, to influence them into not doing so?

Catch-22

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#425

Post by Socketier » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:19 AM UTC

erlich wrote: post #418

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

YouTube is exactly the same. You have to install a browser extension to block politics from your suggested videos. Twitter is great because they have “blocked words”. I maxed out my 200 words though and have to constantly swap them. It’s undoubtedly true that they make huge money from hate and divisiveness. This is not whistleblowing though. They are not breaking laws. And everyone already knows this. People can choo…

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#426

Post by mlang23 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

taurath wrote: post #317

code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

Hit the nail on the head there. It’s impossible to actually get what was the damn promise of Facebook to begin with, and instead everyone gets practically drugged with crap because it makes Mark more money.

Well, same applies to YouTube. Most of the ads I get in the past 6 months are absolutely borderline scam.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#427

Post by wepple » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:29 AM UTC

Socketier wrote: post #425

erlich wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is exactly the same. You have to install a browser extension to block politics from your suggested videos. Twitter is great because they have “blocked words”. I maxed out my 200 words though and have to constantly swap them. It’s undoubtedly true that they make huge money from hate and divisiveness. This is not whistleblowing though. They are not breaking laws. And everyone already knows this. People can choo…

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

+1

I find that YT actually badly overfits my history; it’s super predictable and narrow.

Sure it’s preferable to falling off the bandwagon into conspiracy, but it doesn’t really “explore” a lot for me

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#428

Post by p49k » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:42 AM UTC

Socketier wrote: post #425

erlich wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is exactly the same. You have to install a browser extension to block politics from your suggested videos. Twitter is great because they have “blocked words”. I maxed out my 200 words though and have to constantly swap them. It’s undoubtedly true that they make huge money from hate and divisiveness. This is not whistleblowing though. They are not breaking laws. And everyone already knows this. People can choo…

Youtube isn't really the same. I've found that I can watch the things I want to fine without seeing a single political video being suggested.

I find the opposite; YouTube is on a constant mission to pull me into the world of right-wing videos with angry titles and antivax propaganda.

If you browse YouTube with cookies disabled or within a cookie fence, you can see that such manipulation is the default behavior. For a significant percentage of videos, the very first set of suggestions is manipulative. For the others, perhaps the first set of suggestions is not problematic but the suggestions for those videos are where the manipulation starts.

It's nice that you found a way out of it but I'm guessing that's rare.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#429

Post by robertlagrant » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:44 AM UTC

aemreunal wrote: post #182

yumraj wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it is naive to separate FB and Zuckerberg. FB is morally corrupt because of Zuckerberg. In fact it is quiet telling that none of the FB cofounders were there long enough, probably because they saw who he is early on.

I believe it was Ben Thompson who recently suggested that it's possible a platform like Facebook is fundamentally incompatible with human nature as well. Maybe, at least, incompatible with society as it exists today. I've been thinking a lot abut that. Edit: Not a defense of Facebook. Regardless of what I said, I still don't think Facebook is trying to be a good company (morally and ethically) and I don't like them

Facebook are spending a lot of money on engineering around this (they call it Community Integrity I think) to try and figure some of these problems out. Not sure how well it's going, but they're certainly spending lots of money.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#430

Post by robertlagrant » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 10:46 AM UTC

iepathos wrote: post #299

poopypoopington wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should want good people to stop working for Facebook. That never made sense to me. Facebook isn't going anywhere, and as such it should be improved, and the only way that will happen is if good people keep going to work there and trying to make it better.

Yeah... I get where you're coming from but imo if you're a storm trooper working on the death star and you keep going into work everyday knowing who and what you serve, then you're not a "good" person anymore. More like "ok" or "meh" at best when it comes to your personal morals/ethics.

They aren't storm troopers on the death star; that's just silly. IF THEY'RE DEMONS IN HELL THEN THEY WON'T CHANGE SATAN'S MIND!

Come on.