Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Python 3.11

docs.python.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 156 posts

Re: Python 3.11

#121

Post by globular-toast »

gypsyharlot wrote: post #71

Python is deceptive. They lure you in with its simplicity, and then one day you want to deploy your software and you realize that it's more complicated than any other programming language ever conceived of.

When you say "deploy" do you mean "put it on a webserver"? I've deployed python Web services on to very limited environments that have nothing more than an interpreter. Nowadays I use pip-tools and docker which makes updating trivial.

Do you perhaps mean distribution as an app? I've had luck with pyinstaller. There can be fiddly bits but overall it's pretty smooth. It's easier if you are targeting a system with an interpreter, like a Linux distro.

Overall I just think you need to know what you're doing. I don't really think this is a bad thing. Maybe you could elaborate on what your difficulties are? From here I just don't see how it's more difficult than anything else.

Re: Python 3.11

#122

Post by em500 »

jnwatson wrote: post #26
warent wrote: post #6

just spent about 4 hrs getting Python 2 and pip setup on my Mac. Any time I have the misfortune of needing to use python I get cold sweats at the thought of the environment stuff. Why is this still such a massive problem?

Please enough of this. Trying spending 2 minutes googling it. Hint: pyenv

If you spend 2 minutes googling it (or even just reading HN comments here), you'll get various people recommending venv, pyenv, poetry, conda, pyflow and probably a whole bunch of deprecated stuff, where it's totally unclear to outsiders which one to use.

Re: Python 3.11

#123

Post by RheingoldRiver »

rlayton2 wrote: post #94
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Pycharm will install different versions for you, but if you have multiple versions installed, it is indeed super easy to switch between them. Though if you have a ton of packages you'll have to reinstall them all for the right version, and if you're dealing with lots of venvs + system installs, you have to make sure to choose the right thing from the dropdown and you might get somewhat lost and confused…

It does install them too - however I have the pro version, and I'm not sure if that's a pro feature or not.

It installs versions of Python or versions of packages? I can't find anything in the docs about installing versions of Python, just packages (which I've done on occasion, when I'm really confused about why my environment isn't working, I also have pro version now but I'm pretty sure I'd done it when I had community version too)

Re: Python 3.11

#124

Post by gypsyharlot »

globular-toast wrote: post #121
gypsyharlot wrote: post #71

Python is deceptive. They lure you in with its simplicity, and then one day you want to deploy your software and you realize that it's more complicated than any other programming language ever conceived of.

When you say "deploy" do you mean "put it on a webserver"? I've deployed python Web services on to very limited environments that have nothing more than an interpreter. Nowadays I use pip-tools and docker which makes updating trivial. Do you perhaps mean distribution as an app? I've had luck with pyinstaller. There can be fiddly bits but overall it's pretty smooth. It's easier if you are targeting a system with an in…

Read and learn: https://sedimental.org/the_packaging_gradient.html

Re: Python 3.11

#126

Post by aroberge »

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #52
arathore wrote: post #40

> When printing tracebacks, the interpreter will now point to the exact expression that caused the error instead of just the line. For example: Traceback (most recent call last): File "distance.py", line 11, in print(manhattan_distance(p1, p2)) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ File "distance.py", line 6, in manhattan_distance return abs(point_1.x - point_2.x) + abs(point_1.y - point_2.y) ^^^^^^^^^ AttributeError: 'NoneType…

This is an INCREDIBLE improvement. I'm so excited for it for myself, and I think it will also do wonders for getting new programmers comfortable with the language. Seeing exactly where in the line your error is, is amazing! IMO this 100% cements Python as the single most newbie-friendly language, if there was any question before now (or at least, before the release of 3.11).

You can already get this information for Python 3.6+ with https://friendly-traceback.github.io/docs/index.html

Re: Python 3.11

#127

Post by vland »

btown wrote: post #23
faizshah wrote: post #3

This is just a change log its better to link to the 3.11 what’s new: https://docs.python.org/3.11/whatsnew/3.11.html

Between this link and the OP, we're seeing the first improvements to drop from Mark Shannon's Microsoft-funded full-time work on CPython optimization, alongside Eric Snow and Guido van Rossum: https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/19/faster_python_mark_sh... https://github.com/markshannon/faster-cpython/blob/master/pl... - indicates that this is step 2 of 4, where the forthcoming steps actually plan to introduce JIT co…

7% is nothing, and the benchmark suite is notoriously unreliable. As usual, whenever a company that has done nothing at all for Python in 30 years attaches its name to the product of others, people fall over themselves to praise it.

Real improvements made by individuals for the last decade are taken for granted and aren't mentioned. The corporations are credit thieves.

Re: Python 3.11

#128

Post by vland »

tigr wrote: post #85
gypsyharlot wrote: post #71

Python is deceptive. They lure you in with its simplicity, and then one day you want to deploy your software and you realize that it's more complicated than any other programming language ever conceived of.

Have you ever tried to deploy an Erlang/OTP application? I find it much harder to do

No, but Go and C++ are much easier to deploy.

Re: Python 3.11

#129

Post by vland »

azinman2 wrote: post #98

> bpo-44590: All necessary data for executing a Python function (local variables, stack, etc) is now kept in a per-thread stack. Frame objects are lazily allocated on demand. This increases performance by about 7% on the standard benchmark suite. Introspection and debugging are unaffected as frame objects are always available when needed. Patch by Mark Shannon That’s pretty massive! My impression of CPython was there…

7% is massive for C, nothing for Python, and the benchmark suite is unreliable.

I'd wait for independent measurements in real world applications. Python core developers are very good at writing bloated benchmark suites that are so convoluted that no one knows what is going on.

Since more than two decades, big projects like "The need for speed", pythonspeed.com pop up periodically without anything happening. But apparently that's enough to get folks excited.

Re: Python 3.11

#130

Post by pletnes »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #111
pletnes wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already move code into separate lines since this is currently missing. This is great indeed. (Although that might still make sense for debugging)

It would sure be great if they made it easier to break to the debugger in case of an unhandled exception, like (setq debug-on-error t) in Emacs Lisp.

This can be done in some IDEs. Although it can get confusimg if you’re working in an app framework that does some sort of catch-all exception handling.
Post reply on HN