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Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

wsj.com

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Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#371

Post by joelbluminator »

aemreunal wrote: post #182
yumraj wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it is naive to separate FB and Zuckerberg. FB is morally corrupt because of Zuckerberg. In fact it is quiet telling that none of the FB cofounders were there long enough, probably because they saw who he is early on.

I believe it was Ben Thompson who recently suggested that it's possible a platform like Facebook is fundamentally incompatible with human nature as well. Maybe, at least, incompatible with society as it exists today. I've been thinking a lot abut that. Edit: Not a defense of Facebook. Regardless of what I said, I still don't think Facebook is trying to be a good company (morally and ethically) and I don't like them

Smartphones are also not compatible with human nature, and neither is office work.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#372

Post by matkoniecz »

poopypoopington wrote: post #276
robbrown451 wrote: post #124

Whether or not what Facebook did was illegal and she technically qualifies as a "whistleblower", I salute her for what she has done and is doing by telling this story. People need to know about this, because it is harmful. This doesn't mean it should be illegal. But it is something people should consider if they go to work for Facebook (or other companies), and hopefully it will inspire people to do something about t…

I don't think we should want good people to stop working for Facebook. That never made sense to me. Facebook isn't going anywhere, and as such it should be improved, and the only way that will happen is if good people keep going to work there and trying to make it better.

> and the only way that will happen is if good people keep going to work there and trying to make it better.

I can buy this reasoning for people in leadership positions, but it seems rationalization for peons working on logging systems, performance etc.

Note that there is an alternative - making bad things illegal or enforcing existing laws. That is hard to do - but still easier than somehow convincing FB to act against its own interests.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#373

Post by joelbluminator »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #25

We have seen this story before. Person joins Facebook thinking they can "help". Then quits. Facebook is a public company whose purpose is serve advertisers. Online ads is the only way they can generate revenue. It is not some woo-woo about connecting the world, giving people a voice, or whatever. That's what the internet enables, not a single website controlled by someone else. Facebook tries to take credit for what…

You are exaggerating. Facebook IS providing real value to some users. For example - when I lived abroad a few years and started missing people from my home country, a Facebook group was there to talk and meet. It solved actual loneliness. Instead of individuals trying to create stand alone websites and invest time and money and effort, Facebook made it super easy to connect. My wife used a pregnant lady / new moms Facebook group in the city we were living in etc etc, it brought a lot of good info and comfort to her. Another example is their market place; it became super easy to buy used stuff in your city (I don't know if it caught in the U.S but in Europe this is becoming popular). People buy less new stuff, save money and help the environment. That's also good right? I can go on and on (for example people who put their business on Facebook and get actual clients). Not all interactions on Facebook are bad.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#374

Post by dvh1990 »

AlbertCory wrote: post #219
snowwrestler wrote: post #87

Facebook is going to become a hollowed out shell of itself if they do not change. They’ll get hollowed out by litigation, legislation, investors, or all of the above. They need new leadership. The tactics that got them here will not carry them further. There are tons of examples of the positive impact of new leadership, on companies like Apple, Microsoft, Uber, Disney, Ford, etc. And there are certainly plenty of exa…

The simplest solution is the one FB will never accept, and yet the harm to the public would be virtually zero: Eliminate all news, politics, and other public policy groups and apps. Return to being just a way to connect with friends and family. No one needs to get their news from Facebook. There are plenty of other sites on the Web for that. Same for all these other "engagement" services. Of course, this would cut th…

How is censorship the answer? People want to consume all types of content on social as much as possible. The answer is making all the data public and open sourcing the feed algo + allowing users to pick their preferred algo. That way, if your feed is not to your liking, pick a better one.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#375

Post by Broken_Hippo »

peter_retief wrote: post #332
MaxikCZ wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because the name of the social app is different today the OP's point makes no sense?

No, the way social apps engage today is different to how facebook does. Not sure if I understand what you mean?

I think the point is that even if it isn't facebook, talk to your kids. Just like you'd talk to them about other kids at school and the interactions between them: Social media is a part of their social world, so talk to them no matter if it is facebook or not. Every one of them has the potential to do something akin to what facebook has done, albeit with their own unique method of delivery.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#376

Post by mszcz »

taurath wrote: post #317
code_duck wrote: post #301

>Frances Haugen: So, you know, you have your phone. You might see only 100 pieces of content if you sit and scroll on for, you know, five minutes. But Facebook has thousands of options it could show you. >The algorithm picks from those options based on the kind of content you've engaged with the most in the past. This is the primary reason I stopped using Facebook. I did everything I could to signal I did not wish to…

Hit the nail on the head there. It’s impossible to actually get what was the damn promise of Facebook to begin with, and instead everyone gets practically drugged with crap because it makes Mark more money.

Aside from the mountains of odorless excrement I started seeing on facebook, this was the other reason I quit. It became unusable because once I scrolled past something it was next to impossible to find it again by either scrolling up or searching. Instead of seeing what people were up to I started seeing things they thought would keep me on the platform for as long as possible.

Looking at it now, at least to me, it seems obvious that the purpose of facebook has changed from "make money by showing people what their friends are up to" to "keep those dumb fucks as long as possible by whatever means possible to make as much fucking money as possible, everything else be dammed". And this is being generous with their beginning.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#377

Post by janpot »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #278

The real takeaway: Parents protect your children from social media. Talk to them. Give them rules to keep them safe. Say "No." Don't wait for Zuckerberg to do it. Don't wait for Congress to do it. Get yourself away from it, and get your children off it. Find some other way to share pictures with grandma and grandpa. We need regulation, yes, but this is the same as people smoking themselves into an early grave, but on…

My parents telling me as a kid not to start smoking definitely didn't prevent me from doing it later in life.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#378

Post by lambdasquirrel »

chaostheory wrote: post #368
snowwrestler wrote: post #87

Facebook is going to become a hollowed out shell of itself if they do not change. They’ll get hollowed out by litigation, legislation, investors, or all of the above. They need new leadership. The tactics that got them here will not carry them further. There are tons of examples of the positive impact of new leadership, on companies like Apple, Microsoft, Uber, Disney, Ford, etc. And there are certainly plenty of exa…

Unless moderate, establishment politicians get replaced, this is unlikely to happen. Why? Because Facebook is very useful as an intelligence tool. It was funded by In-Q-Tel after all. Otherwise, there would need to be a lot more public uproar and I'm not seeing that from the general public.

But they have been getting replaced. On both the left and the right, but especially the right. And if Sanders had somehow been president in 2016, you bet that it would’ve been establishment Dems who’d have been retiring.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#379

Post by amelius »

dvh1990 wrote: post #374
AlbertCory wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest solution is the one FB will never accept, and yet the harm to the public would be virtually zero: Eliminate all news, politics, and other public policy groups and apps. Return to being just a way to connect with friends and family. No one needs to get their news from Facebook. There are plenty of other sites on the Web for that. Same for all these other "engagement" services. Of course, this would cut th…

How is censorship the answer? People want to consume all types of content on social as much as possible. The answer is making all the data public and open sourcing the feed algo + allowing users to pick their preferred algo. That way, if your feed is not to your liking, pick a better one.

Pushing one type of information relative to others is also censorship. Few people will change their feed algorithm without some kind of ballot screen.

Re: Facebook whistleblower says she wants to fix company, not harm it

#380

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #333
bagels wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are saying "regulation" What would that regulation actually require social media companies to do?

Here is how i think of it: Put people in an fMRI machine while reading and interacting with the facebook feed of a celebrity, or person that they dont have personal connection with Then show people the feed of their friends or family Then force facebook to change its algorithms until the two fMRI readings show similar level of activation of key areas in limbic system The real power of facebook is that it exploits the…

You're putting a lot of faith in the accuracy of fMRI there.
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