It takes a PhD to develop that • Hacker News Board

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#21

Post by otheracc » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:31 AM UTC

Hm... It's totally okay, to not be able to do it. Nobody can know everything. Doesn't mean you are in a "lower" category compared to your colleagues.

Okay, it's not a global problem (ie. "needs PHD") but just a personal problem (ie. "I have no clue how to solve it"). Trying to get as much stuff done as possible, I've said similar things in the past, though. Not really thought about it before typing. Happens...

Nobody got hurt in the process, right? Let's forgive this little misinterpretation and move on.

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#22

Post by jiggawatts » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:31 AM UTC

maxnoe wrote: post #17

onion2k wrote: post #7

A few hours later another programmer came up with the prototype of a much faster terminal renderer, proving that for an experienced programmer a terminal renderer is a fun weekend project and far away from being a multiyear long research undertaking. I have no idea if this is the case here, and I suspect it might not be, but pretty much every time I've seen a developer complain that something is slow and then 'prove'…

This. My time library is so much faster and smaller than yours. Timezones? Nah, didn't implement it. My font rendering is so much simpler and faster than yours. Nah, only 8 bit encodings. Also no RTL. Ligatures? Come on. The list goes on.

Don't assume. Casey Muratori produced a highly correct Unicode renderer with correct VT code support.

Watch the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99dKzubvpKE

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#23

Post by mattip » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:32 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #11

PhDs often make the worst possible developers. People with PhDs (especially in Mathematics) are often lacking the most critical characteristic of a good developer; they don't know why they do things. Being good at math requires being able to solve problems whose solutions often do not have any practical uses or whose practical uses may not be clear. This is very different from how software problems should be approach…

A bit if a generalisation. For a different view: currently almost all the core devs for NumPy and SciPy (those are the ones I know personally) have doctorates.

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#24

Post by eska » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:32 AM UTC

maxnoe wrote: post #17

onion2k wrote: post #7

A few hours later another programmer came up with the prototype of a much faster terminal renderer, proving that for an experienced programmer a terminal renderer is a fun weekend project and far away from being a multiyear long research undertaking. I have no idea if this is the case here, and I suspect it might not be, but pretty much every time I've seen a developer complain that something is slow and then 'prove'…

This. My time library is so much faster and smaller than yours. Timezones? Nah, didn't implement it. My font rendering is so much simpler and faster than yours. Nah, only 8 bit encodings. Also no RTL. Ligatures? Come on. The list goes on.

Except that in this case it’s the other way around. This weekend project has better support for things like like ligatures, combinations of Arabic characters, RTL, etc

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#25

Post by quickthrower2 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #15

It's a shame that engineers commit their time for free for the benefit of multi billion corporation. Why do they do it? These corporations are not your friends.

Puzzles me. It’s ironic you give stuff away as “free software” for “the masses”, you are just helping the Pandora papers mob get richer. Unless that software is genuinely disruptive. Tor, BitTorrent for example. But that’s more rate. Memcached, Redis being free just helps corporations really.

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#26

Post by thih9 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:35 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #7

A few hours later another programmer came up with the prototype of a much faster terminal renderer, proving that for an experienced programmer a terminal renderer is a fun weekend project and far away from being a multiyear long research undertaking. I have no idea if this is the case here, and I suspect it might not be, but pretty much every time I've seen a developer complain that something is slow and then 'prove'…

This seems referenced in the repo itself, see the “feature support” section [1].

That being said, is anyone aware of a significant missing feature that would impact performance?

[1]: https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm#feature-support

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#27

Post by zhdc1 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:36 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #11

PhDs often make the worst possible developers. People with PhDs (especially in Mathematics) are often lacking the most critical characteristic of a good developer; they don't know why they do things. Being good at math requires being able to solve problems whose solutions often do not have any practical uses or whose practical uses may not be clear. This is very different from how software problems should be approach…

Meh, it's better to treat software development and underlying academic competencies, like mathematics, as completely separate fields.

Sure, the latter helps the former, but rear in seat experience is best for (I'm assuming) both.

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#28

Post by lstamour » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:37 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #7

A few hours later another programmer came up with the prototype of a much faster terminal renderer, proving that for an experienced programmer a terminal renderer is a fun weekend project and far away from being a multiyear long research undertaking. I have no idea if this is the case here, and I suspect it might not be, but pretty much every time I've seen a developer complain that something is slow and then 'prove'…

Reading the thread itself, it’s a bit of both. Windows Terminal is complex, ClearType is complex and Unicode rendering is complex. That said… https://github.com/cmuratori/refterm does exist, does not support ClearType, but does claim to fully support Unicode. Unfortunately, Microsoft can’t use the code because (a) it’s GPLv2 and (b) it sounds like the Windows Terminal project is indeed a bit more complicated than can be hacked on over a weekend and would need extensive refactoring to support the approach. So it sounds a bit more like a brownfield problem than simply ignoring half the things it needs to do, though it probably does that too.

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#29

Post by CogitoCogito » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:39 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #11

PhDs often make the worst possible developers. People with PhDs (especially in Mathematics) are often lacking the most critical characteristic of a good developer; they don't know why they do things. Being good at math requires being able to solve problems whose solutions often do not have any practical uses or whose practical uses may not be clear. This is very different from how software problems should be approach…

> Being good at math requires being able to solve problems whose solutions often do not have any practical uses or whose practical uses may not be clear to you. This is very different from how software problems should be approached.

I don't really agree. Being good at mathematical research requires recognizing the "core organization structure of a system" and solving the "core problem at hand". I'd argue that it's essentially the same in programming (and business) as well. The main difference is that a mathematical researcher is able to ignore non-pertinent information, while in practice those issues (usually) need to be dealt with.

That said I wouldn't say that PhDs (math or otherwise) make great developers. Their skill in development is a result of experience in developing software within the software industry and not something they gain simply due to "being intelligent" or by working on their on on their POC research implementations. But I'd point out that it's basically the same for professional software developers as well.

Re: It takes a PhD to develop that

#30

Post by joeberon » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 7:40 AM UTC

moralestapia wrote: post #8

This reflects a lot of what goes on in Academia as well. Also, if you think you can counter a "that's not possible" with a working proof of said thing working, think again, most people don't like to be shown they're wrong, particularly tenured professors. That's one of the fastest ways to sabotage your own developing career. "Yes men" climb the ladder much easier, but then work doesn't do itself so that's the catch.…

It really depends on the person, but yes you have to get to know them to know how they will react. I find that this is more of a problem in the US, where tenured professors often develop these vast impenetrable egos, while in other countries, such as in the UK or Germany, they are more pragmatic. That said it is still entirely individual, and I knew who to avoid when I had certain ideas in my PhD.

Also, our German group leader asked me to take a feature from my software package because he was worried that the Americans would get upset at an early PhD student showing them up.