Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#151

Post by ldehaan » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

disabled wrote: post #128

gruez wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s quite disgusting as she is a mother with a disabled child. how is that disgusting? that seems entirely consistent with her beliefs, as disabled child means high costs which potentially could mean getting denied care on the basis of cost. it's not any different than say, "congresswoman with cancer pushes for cancer treatment funding bill".

Dude, seriously just shut up. I am physically and medically disabled and I am of childbearing age. I require an orphan drug (a blood product from paid blood donors which contains the pooled antibodies from tens of thousands of people, as required by FDA regulation) which quite literally costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, under contract by insurance, just so I can stay alive, as I have an immune mediated…

You're an ist aren't you?

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#152

Post by lazyasciiart » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:47 AM UTC

User23 wrote: post #113

tomrod wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and I'm not sure how you arrived at that. I was referencing policies like those in WA, OR, and Europe where people can choose to end their life.

Choosing to end one’s own life doesn’t require government policy. Human life is plenty fragile. Anyone that actually wants to die has plenty of reliable options and they will be beyond the reach of secular law afterwards. From that it follows that euthanasia laws are actually about allowing next of kin or whoever has medical power of attorney to lawfully order the principal’s killing. In the best case this is executi…

Some people are not physically capable of suicide. Some people are technically physical capable but under constant medical care that means they would effectively need collusion from others. Some people believe they shouldn't have to die alone and want the choice to have their family or others around them without leaving their family exposed to criminal charges. Some people simply believe they should have access to reliable, comfortable and painless deaths with the assistance of a professional.

Most people who attempt suicide fail. Some of this is due to sheer chance (surviving a jump from the Golden Gate Bridge), some of it is failure to understand the means they choose, some of it is due to sheer psychological inability, like people who faint at the sight of blood.

Are you less baffled now?

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#153

Post by nradov » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:49 AM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #132

germinalphrase wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding and educational attention are bumpy metrics. Putting Mississippi and Massachusetts in the same bucket doesn’t lend itself to fair comparisons.

Spending and educational outcomes are very loosely correlated in the US. Vermont is spending roughly as much as Mississippi, but it has vastly better educational outcomes. Baltimore spends more per student than the two combined, but its educational outcomes are abysmal.

Much of what Baltimore spends on "education" is really social services by another name. That's not necessarily a bad thing because children in bad situations really do need food, healthcare, counseling, etc in order to be able to learn effectively. But bundling all of those ancillary services into the education budget makes it hard to tell whether taxpayers are getting their money's worth.

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#154

Post by curmudgeon22 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:52 AM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #140

cratermoon wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An individual living in an isolated rural community wanting a chat is almost entirely unlike a for-profit corporation running a group home calling a paramedic to change someone's bandages because they are cutting costs by not hiring sufficient staff.

"because they are cutting costs by not hiring sufficient staff." Or because the fire department has failed to implement something as basic as a call-out fee for frivolous calls. Of course a service is going to get over-subscribed and abused if the price for it is way too low. Both individuals and corporations will do that because it follows from the incentives provided to them. Lonely old people are going to sit on a…

I think there are a lot of potential problems charging a fee for emergency service calls. Who decided what is frivolous?

The person making the call can't be assumed to be an expert. And in many cases, it might seem serious/freaky in the moment, but be less so to an outside observer.

This sounds like a good way to penalize poor folks and have them avoid using the system altogether, resulting in worse outcomes and higher cost burden on the system when preventable issues aren't dealt with proactively.

I get where you're coming from and agree that preventing frivolous calls is a good aim, I don't know that a fee is the right solution.

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#155

Post by nradov » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:53 AM UTC

sli wrote: post #136

gruez wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a tank of helium + mask/bag satisfies that criteria.

Consumer helium is sold with a good amount of oxygen in it now for exactly that reason.

I'm pretty sure that's a myth, at least in most areas. Helium tanks usually contain >99% pure helium. I've never seen one with a significant amount of oxygen.

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#156

Post by curmudgeon22 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 4:54 AM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #146

cratermoon wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> call-out fee for frivolous calls Sounds like a typical neoliberal "free market" non-solution.

This snarky reply isn't a rebuttal of any substance. A frivolous call-out fee is a clear and simple solution. If you fix the price then the problem goes away because the incentive for the frivolous call-out no longer exists. It's cheaper for them to hire another staff member than rely on the fire department.

A fee to commercial facilities making frivolous calls could be more reasonable, as they should have competent folks managing things. See my sibling comment regarding fees in general.

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#157

Post by fighterpilot » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:02 AM UTC

curmudgeon22 wrote: post #154

fighterpilot wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"because they are cutting costs by not hiring sufficient staff." Or because the fire department has failed to implement something as basic as a call-out fee for frivolous calls. Of course a service is going to get over-subscribed and abused if the price for it is way too low. Both individuals and corporations will do that because it follows from the incentives provided to them. Lonely old people are going to sit on a…

I think there are a lot of potential problems charging a fee for emergency service calls. Who decided what is frivolous? The person making the call can't be assumed to be an expert. And in many cases, it might seem serious/freaky in the moment, but be less so to an outside observer. This sounds like a good way to penalize poor folks and have them avoid using the system altogether, resulting in worse outcomes and high…

It looks like they're considering what I proposed, it's just taking them a while to implement it.

"The new ordinance also allowed the city to levy fines against facilities deemed to be making frivolous or excessive emergency calls."

You have a point about the possible downsides. It would have to be done well, such as doing what you suggested by limiting the fee to commercial facilities.

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#158

Post by cratermoon » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:03 AM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #146

cratermoon wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> call-out fee for frivolous calls Sounds like a typical neoliberal "free market" non-solution.

This snarky reply isn't a rebuttal of any substance. A frivolous call-out fee is a clear and simple solution. If you fix the price then the problem goes away because the incentive for the frivolous call-out no longer exists. It's cheaper for them to hire another staff member than rely on the fire department.

No really. Turning a public service into a fee-based means-tested public/private program is the basic neoliberal program. The polices are always put forward with the rubric that the so-called free market is the best way to solve problems of distribution and fairness. To used a tired example, https://www.villagevoice.com/2010/10/11/libertarian-fire-dep...

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#159

Post by Gortal278 » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

mberning wrote: post #43

Our medical system is completely screwed up from a capacity standpoint. I was sick a few weeks ago and called my primary care doc. No appointments for a week. Do an online appointment which is useless and they say I need to be seen. Go to urgent care. 4 hour wait. I figured that was my best option so toughed it out. During my time waiting I saw multiple people come in, talk to the receptionist, and leave in tears whe…

Where? This is not anything close to my experience at all.

Re: Firefighters say they’re swamped by calls for routine care from senior homes

#160

Post by roenxi » Mon, Oct 04, 2021, 5:11 AM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #50

john_yaya wrote: post #15

Senior homes and assisted living centers are a national disgrace. They are entirely about profit maximization (what business isn’t?), and as such hire people at the exact minimum and have well over 100% yearly turnover. The staff commonly steal from residents, and the management do not care. They’d rather retain a larcenous pig who barely executes her duties than have to go back and scrape the barrel for a replacemen…

"Elderly people should live with their families." Spoken with the confidence of someone who has never had to care for an elderly relative who was in both mental and physical decline. In any case it is a deeply personal decision without a definitive right or wrong answer. After seeing my Aunt try to care for my grandmother for years only for it to negatively effect their relationship because of her dementia I wouldn't…

Without disagreeing - if that is what happened to her relationship with someone close to her, what would have happened in a care facility of people who don't have any personal connection at all? These care facilities don't sound like fun either.

Fact is that getting old can be a truly horrible process. Which is why the pro-euthanasia people keep standing up.