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Re: undefined

#31

Post by rdiddly »

Arainach wrote: post #13
tluyben2 wrote: post #5

Anecdotal: the richest self made people I know work the hardest, the poorest don't work at all or as little as possible, by choice (state pays). People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest and the people who do well but not enough to be rich (I guess some type of middle class) whine about it all and want to be rich to vacation the rest of their life (but will probably never get there as they never run, just chug a…

>People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest Please. Meet more people or just read a newspaper or book. The rich love to whine about dissatisfaction, but it is in the smallest tier of unhappiness. The stress of dealing with (or putting off) healthcare you need but can't afford, being evicted or having your utilities turned off, watching those around you slowly die to a drug epidemic, living every day in fear of be…

There's a lack of empathy and imagination in this comment, not to mention no appreciation for irony. Is it so hard to imagine that someone's mental environment can turn paradise into hell? Or for that matter, hell into paradise?

Imagine being born into a rich family, and knowing from day one that nothing you do really matters. Any screwups you have will be fixed immediately by daddy's money. And anything you accomplish, it'll be like "Well yeah of course they were able to do that because of their privilege." Nothing is yours, you aren't even the one responsible for your successes or failures. Life is meaningless and it's because, as the article is trying to say, there's no adversity to give it meaning.

Re: undefined

#32

Post by tluyben2 »

alshel wrote: post #7
tluyben2 wrote: post #5

Anecdotal: the richest self made people I know work the hardest, the poorest don't work at all or as little as possible, by choice (state pays). People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest and the people who do well but not enough to be rich (I guess some type of middle class) whine about it all and want to be rich to vacation the rest of their life (but will probably never get there as they never run, just chug a…

Not anecdotal: By nature of the structural relations of our society, the richest people are exploiting the labor of the poorest people, which leaves little reason for the poor people to coopperate.

What is the fix if employers ('the rich') are to employ and not exploit? For cases in the news like Amazon drivers etc it is clear but many people just want jobs and do not feel exploited even though their boss is making a killing?

Re: undefined

#33

Post by armchairhacker »

Every time I hear someone say "life is hard, just push through it, embrace the difficulty", I hope they understand there are different levels of hard.

It's absolutely true that if you want to accomplish almost anything you need to endure some levels of suffering. There are a lot of people who just need to hear "quit complaining, quit trying to make it easier, and actually try". There are a lot of people who fail to achieve their goals because they don't try, they're too lazy and they're too nervous to push themselves.

But if you just try to push yourself as hard as you can for the sake of it, you'll waste your effort and burn out. Success requires effort but it's only means to an end: e.g. the success from releasing a product isn't the crunch time you put into it, it's the actual product. Hard work alone won't get you far, you also have to work smart. This is why IMO "embrace the pain" sends the wrong message, "accept the pain" might be better.

Furthermore, everyone has a limit and you have to understand yours. Too much suffering won't make you stronger, it will actually break you. A cruel realization is that there are poor people and laborers who've went through more suffering than you can imagine, and they don't have anything to show for it.

Re: undefined

#34

Post by nly »

tluyben2 wrote: post #28
whatever1 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich people I know are the ones who were lucky to be born I a place/social class where opportunities were available to them, and maybe they worked hard. The first is a prerequisite. Hard work might be needed, but not always, specially if you are born in to a rich family.

I agree with that, but in my circles, and ffs I add anecdotal again (I am not a science journal), the ones who inherited are dead (3 of them drank themselves literally to death out of boredom in my small town), addicts or in jail. So I guess it can land well, but I would think rich parents/social class and then hard work would be better.

Why didn't they leave the small town?

Re: undefined

#35

Post by tluyben2 »

nly wrote: post #34
tluyben2 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with that, but in my circles, and ffs I add anecdotal again (I am not a science journal), the ones who inherited are dead (3 of them drank themselves literally to death out of boredom in my small town), addicts or in jail. So I guess it can land well, but I would think rich parents/social class and then hard work would be better.

Why didn't they leave the small town?

They did: that was worse imho: rich young bored guys with millions in a city. It sped up the process. None of them died in the town we grew up in but they were all buried there. Note that these were high-school class mates.

Re: undefined

#36

Post by Arainach »

rdiddly wrote: post #31
Arainach wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People who inherited wealth are the unhappiest Please. Meet more people or just read a newspaper or book. The rich love to whine about dissatisfaction, but it is in the smallest tier of unhappiness. The stress of dealing with (or putting off) healthcare you need but can't afford, being evicted or having your utilities turned off, watching those around you slowly die to a drug epidemic, living every day in fear of be…

There's a lack of empathy and imagination in this comment, not to mention no appreciation for irony. Is it so hard to imagine that someone's mental environment can turn paradise into hell? Or for that matter, hell into paradise? Imagine being born into a rich family, and knowing from day one that nothing you do really matters . Any screwups you have will be fixed immediately by daddy's money. And anything you accompl…

"Adversity gives life meaning" is a lie pushed by people who want to encourage those in adverse circumstances to know their place. If you want to feel like "nothing you do really matters", all you have to do is take a minimum wage job at any store or restaurant where management will constantly remind you that you're a replaceable cog, that if they could pay you less they would except that it would be illegal (so they'll settle for illegally garnishing wages and asking you to come in early or stay late off the clock), and where you'll realize that there's no way to keep doing this and make rent and healthcare - much less to get ahead.

Re: undefined

#38

Post by armchairhacker »

bloqs wrote: post #16

Doing hard things improves you, but ultimately your personality is largely defined by the time you stop being a child. Industriousness is very much a personality dimension and it is very hard to change. Industriousness is a measure of how satisfied you are doing nothing. Highly industrious personalities are the most prevalent factor with success across the lifespan (in Western economies) and also seem less likely to…

> Industriousness is a measure of how satisfied you are doing nothing

Did you mean how unsatisfied you are doing nothing? Because industrious seems to mean "hard-working, diligent, devoted to success".

Re: undefined

#39

Post by epicureanideal »

paulpauper wrote: post #30
Woberto wrote: post #14

I think this article is disingenuous, because not all things are difficult for all people. Some people really do work a few hours per week and still live a comfortable lifestyle, whether because they had a lot of help getting a comfy job (wealthy parents, lots of tutoring, nepotism, etc.) or maybe won the genetic lottery, while disadvantaged people may see it as not only difficult but maybe impossible to attain the s…

What do you mean by genetic lottery. It seems as if people with 'good genes' also work the hardest. Maybe this is because they get the most mileage from their effort, hence such positive feedback is a good incentive to keep working.

> It seems as if people with 'good genes' also work the hardest.

Sure, that happens sometimes, but not all the time or even most of the time. It seems our anecdotal experience doesn’t agree.

Re: undefined

#40

Post by bumbada »

I believe that while there is some inner truth in the article, that you could push harder and go farther than you could ever believe, there must be a big warning sign too.

If you push yourself hard, then you should also rest hard. You can burn yourself, you can destroy your immune system with stress and die from cancer in your 30s.

I know because I have worked the hardest a person can and gotten nowhere while watching other people succeed with little effort and have learn a lot from those guys.

Then I became much more successful doing much less effort.

I have seen people literarily kill themselves through work and getting miserable. Don't do that.

You must enjoy your wealth while you create it. Enjoy your journey, enjoy the process and things become easier.

Learn basic physics, learn productivity. The more output with the smaller effort, the bigger the efficiency. Master efficiency. Learn Pareto' principle. Learn habit formation so things become automatic and easy. Learn psychology so you understand people.

Learn your limits, pick the battles you could win and win big. Do NOT do work that brings you little while requiring significant effort.

If you work too much in the wrong things you will be miserable anyway.

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