Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products • Hacker News Board

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#51

Post by forgotmypw17 » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #8

> Although the levels of individual pesticides are within legal limits, activists fear the combination of multiple chemicals could be particularly damaging to people’s health. This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. This organization, Pesticide Action Network, is opposed to GMOs and other modern farming techniques that kicked off the green revol…

Do you think sceintists who have in the past worked for the pesticide producers and are still affiliated with them in various ways should be included in the decisionmaking?

Do you think these scientists are more or less trustworthy than activists with an education and a strong interest in human health?

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#52

Post by forgotmypw17 » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

> This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce?

Well, if I were you, I would do both, and I would stop working a full-time job so that I could focus on raising my kids.

I would also stop trusting the FDA or any other large org, because they have shown themselves to be untrustworthy and corruptible.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#53

Post by JamisonM » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

JamisonM wrote: post #50

irthomasthomas wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic requires far more land, more water, more fertilizer and more energy than traditionaly farmed produce. In addition, the pesticed sprayed on crops do not penetrate the skin, and can be removed easy by rinsing the produce with water. But organic crops contain endogenous pesticides that cannot be washed off. Organic crops have been selectively bread over many years to be pest resistant, so that they could be grow…

This is the first time I have heard this endogenous pesticide argument and I gotta say, it seems extraordinary! Is there some solid evidence for this?

(Also the argument that applied pesticides are on the surface of plants/produce only is incorrect as a blanket statement. There are many systemic insecticides on the market and they are usually preferable due to duration of protection.)

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#54

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #40

mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

42% of people are obesse in usa. That seems like very obviously the more immediate risk by many orders of magnitude. The risk of pesticides (that are within legal limits) is a bit more nebulous, but seems almost certainly nowhere near as pervasive as obesity. If you have a known risk that's significant, probably best to focus there. However is this really the trade off? For the most part you can't really buy pesticid…

[deleted]

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#55

Post by ricardobeat » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #52

mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

> This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? Well, if I were you, I would do both, and I would stop working a full-time job so that I could focus on raising my kids. I would also stop trusting the FDA or any other large org, because they have shown themselves to be untrustworthy and cor…

Stoping to work a full time job and buying only organic produce are kinda mutually exclusive.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#56

Post by argvargc » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #8

> Although the levels of individual pesticides are within legal limits, activists fear the combination of multiple chemicals could be particularly damaging to people’s health. This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. This organization, Pesticide Action Network, is opposed to GMOs and other modern farming techniques that kicked off the green revol…

And when activists are scientists?

Or what about when activists just pay attention to, read and understand science?

That, in general, seems to be something rather common - emergent science is often what motivates activists, especially regarding safety.

Actually, much science itself could be considered an ongoing process of a kind of "activism".

As a sibling suggested, if something plausible and potentially harmful hasn't been studied enough to rule it out; study it.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#57

Post by OJFord » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

bawolff wrote: post #38

jniedrauer wrote: post #8

> Although the levels of individual pesticides are within legal limits, activists fear the combination of multiple chemicals could be particularly damaging to people’s health. This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. This organization, Pesticide Action Network, is opposed to GMOs and other modern farming techniques that kicked off the green revol…

> This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. I think anyone should be able to raise an objection - and then we should look at the science to decide how valid it is. The activists seem to be worried that while individually the chemicals are fine, maybe they aren't in combination. I have no idea if that's true or not, but it doesn't sound impossible,…

> individually the chemicals are fine, maybe they aren't in combination

I'm sure I've heard colleagues (more on the 'ag' side of the 'agtech' company) mention that, things that can't be used in combination, but I can't see where it would be listed (or find an example where it is) in the pesticides register: https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/pestreg/prodsearch.asp

I'll ask next week if I remember, curious now, since it seems fairly obvious? Just like you can buy all sorts of safe household & garden chemicals for cleaning etc. but which if you know what you're doing (I don't) and want to (I certainly don't) can be used to construct very not-safe things.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#58

Post by marcorx » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 10:58 PM UTC

Nicksil wrote: post #20

clairity wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the (magnitude of) risk isn't certain yet, but it's unlikely zero, given our history of poorly quantifying the harmfulness of a variety of substances. a reasonable hedge is to buy organic for the dirty dozen and non-organic for other produce. eat less processed sugar regardless, whether you replace it with fruit or not.

>the (magnitude of) risk isn't certain yet, but it's unlikely zero, given our history of poorly quantifying the harmfulness of a variety of substances. a reasonable hedge is to buy organic for the dirty dozen and non-organic for other produce. eat less processed sugar regardless, whether you replace it with fruit or not. If the goal is to reduce ingestion of substances applied to crops, then what you describe is not…

The residue of pesticides in food is significantly lower, at least in EU. [1]

Some useful points:

- EFSA reports show that conventional agriculture exceeds the approved maximum residue levels more often and by a higher margin

- A study in Sweden reveals a significantly higher (70x) exposure in conventional food vs organic

[1] https://ehjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12940-...

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#59

Post by amelius » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:07 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #8

> Although the levels of individual pesticides are within legal limits, activists fear the combination of multiple chemicals could be particularly damaging to people’s health. This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. This organization, Pesticide Action Network, is opposed to GMOs and other modern farming techniques that kicked off the green revol…

Science: substance X is bad.

Pesticide company: Ok, we'll modify X slightly so that it is a different molecule from a regulations perspective, but with the same effect.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#60

Post by varelse » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

AdamHominem wrote: post #39

jniedrauer wrote: post #8

> Although the levels of individual pesticides are within legal limits, activists fear the combination of multiple chemicals could be particularly damaging to people’s health. This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. This organization, Pesticide Action Network, is opposed to GMOs and other modern farming techniques that kicked off the green revol…

You're implying that because they're within legal limits everything is A-OK (how are the limits set? Exhibit A: US drinking water pollutant limits, which were raised by Bush, not based on science) ...then launching into an ad hominem attack (either the pesticide amounts are safe or not, and it has nothing to do with who is asking "is this safe or not?") ...and jumping on the word "fear" (I say "I fear the gun you've…

We found out the hard way that you can have manganese sediment in your drinking water to the point that the water comes out brown and full of sand and it doesn't violate EPA regulations just their recommendations as it clogs all your plumbing fixtures and sets you up for a huge repair bill. And the water company is absolutely not responsible in any way.