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Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

theguardian.com

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Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#41

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Nicksil wrote: post #10

This article has so much misleading information. It's bonkers. >The official figures, analysed by Pesticide Action Network (PAN), found 122 different pesticides in the 12 most polluted products, which the charity calls the “dirty dozen”. Many of these are hazardous to human health; 61% are classified as highly hazardous pesticides (HHPs), a concept used by the UN to identify those substances most harmful to human hea…

You’re entire argued through the comments here seem to be that we should trust the government, current monitoring practices, existing limits, and the current science.

This is a very fucking shaky foundation to base an argument.

We have every reason to be highly doubtful of all of those and to continue to seek more refined certainty.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#42

Post by dabfiend19 »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #19

Vertical farming is a solution, because it needs no pesticide being in a clean environment.

do you have any evidence of this? from my personal experience pests are an even bigger problem for growing plants indoors.

lack of predatory parts of the food chain allow some pests to go unchecked.

just one spider mite in a greenhouse... could quickly overtake the whole thing with out natural predators like lady bugs and predatory mites.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#43

Post by Nicksil »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #37
Nicksil wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think you mean "natural" not organic? Everything in the universe is inherently natural. No, I meant organic. >I used to have similar cynical beliefs about "organic" food. And i think even 10 years ago that cynicism was justified, but not anymore. My comments aren't derived from cynicism. The information I've provided is widely available and easily consumable. I have not introduced any novel idea or position. >I en…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_pesticides

>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_pesticides

I'm not sure what you're meaning to say by giving that link, but there isn't anything there to refute anything I've commented on. With respect to the organic argument, every topic mentioned in that article applies to organic crop products just as well.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#44

Post by smolder »

mapcars wrote: post #34
mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

What does it mean to spend money and time on eating less sugar? Spend no money and no time by not buying sugar products, that's it.

It's often more expensive (if not in cash, than in time and effort of preparation) to live on healthy calories versus cheap ones sourced from corn syrup.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#45

Post by irthomasthomas »

mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

Organic requires far more land, more water, more fertilizer and more energy than traditionaly farmed produce. In addition, the pesticed sprayed on crops do not penetrate the skin, and can be removed easy by rinsing the produce with water. But organic crops contain endogenous pesticides that cannot be washed off. Organic crops have been selectively bread over many years to be pest resistant, so that they could be grown commercially by factory farming. They achieve this by producing more natural pesticides, which permeate through all parts of the fruit or veg and make organic produce far more toxic than than traditional food.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#46

Post by sjtindell »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #45
mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

Organic requires far more land, more water, more fertilizer and more energy than traditionaly farmed produce. In addition, the pesticed sprayed on crops do not penetrate the skin, and can be removed easy by rinsing the produce with water. But organic crops contain endogenous pesticides that cannot be washed off. Organic crops have been selectively bread over many years to be pest resistant, so that they could be grow…

I’m interested, can you share some source for this information?

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#47

Post by klyrs »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #19

Vertical farming is a solution, because it needs no pesticide being in a clean environment.

A friend of mine is a mycologist who studies fungi that grow in hydroponic greenhouses. I feel fairly safe saying that there's no such thing as a "clean" environment where anything is allowed to grow. In the best case: if it's clean but nutritious enough to support life, it's ripe for rapid colonization, and probably by something nasty.

See also: biosphere experiments.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#48

Post by Nicksil »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #41
Nicksil wrote: post #10

This article has so much misleading information. It's bonkers. >The official figures, analysed by Pesticide Action Network (PAN), found 122 different pesticides in the 12 most polluted products, which the charity calls the “dirty dozen”. Many of these are hazardous to human health; 61% are classified as highly hazardous pesticides (HHPs), a concept used by the UN to identify those substances most harmful to human hea…

You’re entire argued through the comments here seem to be that we should trust the government, current monitoring practices, existing limits, and the current science. This is a very fucking shaky foundation to base an argument. We have every reason to be highly doubtful of all of those and to continue to seek more refined certainty.

>You’re entire argued through the comments here seem to be that we should trust the government, current monitoring practices, existing limits, and the current science.

I have mentioned government once and even in that comment was in the context of comparing it to an entity which should not go unquestioned much less anything concerning regulations. That's a straw man.

>This is a very fucking shaky foundation to base an argument.

>We have every reason to be highly doubtful of all of those and to continue to seek more refined certainty.

I have made zero arguments concerning any of this. I don't understand what you're getting to.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#49

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Nicksil wrote: post #35
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that is accurate(source?), quantity applied says nothing about the danger of the substance to humans.

>Even if that is accurate(source?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming >quantity applied says nothing about the danger of the substance to humans. Quantity is the deciding factor when talking about toxicity to humans. If I've misunderstood your comment, please correct me.

Let’s just take one example:

Sodium Bicarbonate, commonly known as Baking Soda works well as an efficient and cost effective fungicide and insecticide. It is actually registered with the EPA for use against certain plant fungi, powdery mildew. As a foliar spray used in the garden, it works wonders against fungus and bugs.

There’s approximately no amount of sodium bicarbonate a person could reasonably ingest, in this context or any other, that would be either immediately harmful or prove to be detrimental long term.

You’d have to really try.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#50

Post by JamisonM »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #45
mherdeg wrote: post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

Organic requires far more land, more water, more fertilizer and more energy than traditionaly farmed produce. In addition, the pesticed sprayed on crops do not penetrate the skin, and can be removed easy by rinsing the produce with water. But organic crops contain endogenous pesticides that cannot be washed off. Organic crops have been selectively bread over many years to be pest resistant, so that they could be grow…

This is the first time I have heard this endogenous pesticide argument and I gotta say, it seems extraordinary! Is there some solid evidence for this?
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