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Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

theguardian.com

21–30 of 95 posts

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With "organic" food, you are getting the same exact thing grown by conventional methods but at a higher price. But thats the problem: you have no way of knowing if "conventional methods" (i.e. no pesticides) were used to grow the produce unless there is a label signaling it. That label is called "organic".

>But thats the problem: you have no way of knowing if "conventional methods" (i.e. no pesticides) were used to grow the produce unless there is a label signaling it. That label is called "organic". I don't follow. Both "organic" and conventional agriculture use pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers.

Not synthetic pesticides and fertilizers.

https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2012/03/22/organic-101-what-....

USDA certified organic foods are grown and processed according to federal guidelines addressing, among many factors, soil quality, animal raising practices, pest and weed control, and use of additives. Organic producers rely on natural substances and physical, mechanical, or biologically based farming methods to the fullest extent possible.

Produce can be called organic if it’s certified to have grown on soil that had no prohibited substances applied for three years prior to harvest. Prohibited substances include most synthetic fertilizers and pesticides. In instances when a grower has to use a synthetic substance to achieve a specific purpose, the substance must first be approved according to criteria that examine its effects on human health and the environment (see other considerations in “Organic 101: Allowed and Prohibited Substances”).

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#22

> Although the levels of individual pesticides are within legal limits, activists fear the combination of multiple chemicals could be particularly damaging to people’s health. This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists. This organization, Pesticide Action Network, is opposed to GMOs and other modern farming techniques that kicked off the green revol…

> This is the important part. Activists' fear should not dictate health policy. That should be done by scientists.

Elected politicians should "dictate" - I would say build consensus on - health policy. Scientists should inform it.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#23
post #16

So, 74 'Highly Hazardous Pesticides' from just 12 fruit. And likely with significant crossover, so you get double and triple-dosed. We know they're more toxic than your ex, and we know that there's people out there eating all these fruits and grains, like your mum. So why do we have debate on Round-ups' toxicity, or the 'economic benefits' of robot-powered, topsoil-eroding mono-cultures with no life in them? Why do w…

>We know organic perma-culture is better; for our bodies, for the soil, for the water and birds and bees. It's not better. Not a thing about it makes it better than conventional agriculture. Indeed one could make the argument it is worse than conventional agriculture for the items you listed because of the less effective methods used for "organic" pesticide, herbicide, and fertilizer application.

I mean, have you read anything about Roundup? If so, how can you say that?

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#24
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But thats the problem: you have no way of knowing if "conventional methods" (i.e. no pesticides) were used to grow the produce unless there is a label signaling it. That label is called "organic". I don't follow. Both "organic" and conventional agriculture use pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers.

Not synthetic pesticides and fertilizers. https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2012/03/22/organic-101-what-... . USDA certified organic foods are grown and processed according to federal guidelines addressing, among many factors, soil quality, animal raising practices, pest and weed control, and use of additives. Organic producers rely on natural substances and physical, mechanical, or biologically based farming methods t…

Conventional pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizers are more effective and sustainable. Conventional products require less of the substance to be applied and less frequently. If the concern is about the impact on the environment and humans, then the logical choice between the organic method and conventional is conventional.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#25
post #17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the dirty dozen concept seems global at this point. i've referred people to this list by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), though i don't know that it's better than any other: https://www.ewg.org/foodnews/dirty-dozen.php note that the recommendation for these produce items is to buy organic. there's a complementary list (clean fifteen) of the least polluted produce, for which buying regular is fine: https://www.…

>the dirty dozen concept seems global at this point. i've referred people to this list by the Environmental Working Group (EWG), though i don't know that it's better than any other: https://www.ewg.org/foodnews/dirty-dozen.php >note that the recommendation for these produce items is to buy organic. there's a complementary list (clean fifteen) of the least polluted produce, for which buying regular is fine: https://ww…

yes, it's not an independent body, but one of many from which to triangulate a reasonable position. hopefully it was an obviously neutral recommendation.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#26
post #12
post #9

This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce or should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? There is a tradeoff... with young kids and a full-time job the time I can spend buying or preparing meals is pretty limited. I don't fully understand the magnitude of the risks of, say, eating too much vs. eating too much pesticide. I'm also ki…

>This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce No. >should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? Yes. It is no surprise you feel torn. Tons of money is invested into the marketing of "organic" produce when it has, in-fact, ZERO positive gain over conventional produce. The FUD being forced down everyone's throat by the "organic" industry…

If you are going to make such unequivocal statements you should back them up with sources, otherwise you are just adding more noise than signal.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#27
post #10

This article has so much misleading information. It's bonkers. >The official figures, analysed by Pesticide Action Network (PAN), found 122 different pesticides in the 12 most polluted products, which the charity calls the “dirty dozen”. Many of these are hazardous to human health; 61% are classified as highly hazardous pesticides (HHPs), a concept used by the UN to identify those substances most harmful to human hea…

> I've enclosed the term "organic" in quotes in some context because the word is absolutely meaningless when used to describe foods. All food is organic. "Organic" is this context is a marketing term and nothing more.

I think you mean "natural" not organic? Everything in the universe is inherently natural.

Cynicism about "organic" labels used to be grounded, but at least in the USA, use of the term is now regulated by the USDA and it has a very specific definition.

I used to have similar cynical beliefs about "organic" food. And i think even 10 years ago that cynicism was justified, but not anymore. I encourage you to update your knowledge and to keep an open mind.

Having said that, i think the anti-GMO movement is nonsense. There's nothing wrong with GMO produce as far as i can tell. In the USA, i do not think GMO crops make the harvest non-organic. In other words, GMO status is not related to organic status. I think. Of course thats unlikely to be true in the EU where GMO crops are demonized. Please correct me if wrong.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#28
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the (magnitude of) risk isn't certain yet, but it's unlikely zero, given our history of poorly quantifying the harmfulness of a variety of substances. a reasonable hedge is to buy organic for the dirty dozen and non-organic for other produce. eat less processed sugar regardless, whether you replace it with fruit or not.

Yeah the fact that it took us years to identify issues with like, BPA or trans fats -- and the constant churn on stuff like glyphosate where it feels like regulators continue to be slower than data -- have me worried. Maybe we should be buying more organic ... It's not any extra time and not overall a huge amount of extra money in the grocery budget.

yah, washing produce thoroughly also helps reduce (but doesn't eliminate) the extra chemicals. these couple precautions don't add too much mental/physical burden, imo.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#29
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is an area where I'm torn. Should I be buying only organic produce No. >should I be spending the same money and energy on eating less sugar and more of any kind of produce? Yes. It is no surprise you feel torn. Tons of money is invested into the marketing of "organic" produce when it has, in-fact, ZERO positive gain over conventional produce. The FUD being forced down everyone's throat by the "organic" industry…

If you are going to make such unequivocal statements you should back them up with sources, otherwise you are just adding more noise than signal.

>If you are going to make such unequivocal statements you should back them up with sources, otherwise you are just adding more noise than signal.

You're correct. But as I am not on my personal machine, my catalog isn't available to me and the time it would take to recall all those URLs I don't have. There's good news, however, my statements aren't novel and are very easily backed by less than 3 minutes between a web search and Wikipedia. I hope you hold the author of this article, as well as those within the group mentioned, to the same standard as they have also supplied no reputable sources.

Re: Traces of 122 different pesticides in 12 most polluted fruit and veg products

#30
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the (magnitude of) risk isn't certain yet, but it's unlikely zero, given our history of poorly quantifying the harmfulness of a variety of substances. a reasonable hedge is to buy organic for the dirty dozen and non-organic for other produce. eat less processed sugar regardless, whether you replace it with fruit or not.

>the (magnitude of) risk isn't certain yet, but it's unlikely zero, given our history of poorly quantifying the harmfulness of a variety of substances. a reasonable hedge is to buy organic for the dirty dozen and non-organic for other produce. eat less processed sugar regardless, whether you replace it with fruit or not. If the goal is to reduce ingestion of substances applied to crops, then what you describe is not…

It’s not about reducing substances–it is about substances that are healthy.
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