I always wonder how companies get away with blatantly manipulating children and young adults, then I come see the comments here all over the place defending fb/insta. My fucking gods.
Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
191–200 of 216 posts
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
> However, no previous generation has had the juggernuat that is... Every single generation for all of time has said this.
No generation ever has had this, full-stop. The only thing that comes close is cigarettes and they were fucking awful for people. A 24/7 lie machine producing and creating lies around them with the people they know as the stars of the lies. It's a constant bombardment of imagery using people they know this has never been seen before because it has literally been impossible. There is no walking away or shutting it off…
> No generation ever has had this, full-stop
This is a totally different statement. Every generation said the kids are being corrupted. It may be the case that this time the kids really are being corrupted.
The whole point of the thread is that armchair psychology says the same thing it always does: the kids are being corrupted. Actual research says: the kids are being corrupted and that IG is different.
The point is that we need the research.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Irony is Facebook will not attract the talent it needs to work constructively on these unsolvable problems. At some point the brand will become so toxic that engineers who've worked there could find themselves persona non grata in many tech roles.
Unfortunately I think other companies would still be happy hiring ex FB developers. They still are ex FAANG, and they showed to give moral and principle the rear seat when it comes to revenue and business. Why wouldn't these folks be hireable?
Personally, when I see FB on a resume, it’s a factor. I want people who will help push the company in a healthy direction. There’s always pressure to make changes to the app that increase addictiveness without adding actual value to the client, and I’m proud to work somewhere where colleagues push back on that kind of thing. Working at FB is a (relatively weak) signal that they won’t be that kind of colleague. It will come up in the interview.
If they can convince me that they stayed there in a ‘change it from within’ capacity, great. Otherwise, yeah it’s a negative signal.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, soldiers on the battlefield are very thankful for the land mines, assuming they're the ones who installed them. With any luck a dude from the other side might not be able to cross the field and slit their throats in the dead of the night. Just as pilots are thankful for fighter jets not crapping out in mid-air, and nuclear submarine sailors are thankful for the engineering that went into the hull, and a gunner i…
The big problem with landmines is they are not generally cleaned up after the war, leaving them around for innocents to trigger and get hurt, maimed, or killed.
Yes. They can be deployed irresponsibly, but that's hardly the engineer's fault.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
All of the things you've listed aren't universally bad. Prisons keep bad people out of society (and yes, I'm aware that some folks shouldn't be in prison, and I wish that'd change, but majority are in the clink for violent crime). Nuclear weapons ensure superpowers can't attack each other - that's why we haven't had a world war in the past 76 years in spite of some pretty crazy tensions. Land mines make land invasion…
> we haven't had a world war in the past 76 years This is of little comfort to the many victims of US foreign policy over that same period
Believe me, things would be _a lot_ worse if there were no nukes and superpowers could go at one another. We're talking 100x the casualties. Most of the violent deaths in the 20th century were the fault of the governments, one way or another. The only reason they don't do that anymore is it'd be self-destructive.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#196Irony is Facebook will not attract the talent it needs to work constructively on these unsolvable problems. It will attract thd clueless and the most ambitious. People who are ready to defend it for their own profit. Its a trap where the hole they are in just keeps growing deeper.
Investment banking has no problem attracting smart people. Smart people know that you gain nothing by sacrificing yourself for society. Even if you cared enough to say no, all that would happen is that Facebook would pay somebody else to work for them.
> Even if you cared enough to say no, all that would happen is that Facebook would pay somebody else to work for them.
Serious question: Do you vote? Because this argument seems like people who say “my vote doesn’t matter, it’s just one vote out of millions.”
It’s true that at the individual level, one vote basically never makes the difference, but elections are won and lost. In the same way, if one person says no, maybe it will barely make a difference, but teams are made of more than one person.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
Corporate death penalty plus prison time for relevant people. How wide to cast the net would have to be worked out.
I thought we, the liberals, are mostly aligned that non-violent climes should not be punishable by prison time.
I have never seen a stat or survey that suggests that.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Good thread here that provides a counter-balance. https://twitter.com/nireyal/status/1443882540868063241?s=21 By the author of Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nir_Eyal : > In 2014 Eyal published his first book, Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products, which became a Wall Street Journal best seller.[12][13] The title reflects Eyal's idea of the "hooked model", which ai…
The person writes a book about hijacking human psychology for more clicks and then goes on to state how it’s our responsibility to control our use. What does he want us to do, re-wire our brains on demand?
> What does he want us to do, re-wire our brains on demand?
He wants us to get hooked on his deliberately addictive products, but blame ourselves for it instead of him.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The reason regulation is suggested is effect on society, and the effect is the same regardless of the engineer's personal status. Amateur programmers are not professional engineers. A profession is an activity people are compensated for. If you're not being compensated, it's not professional work. If it's not professional, you should not be held liable for it. Someone publishing a personal project should not be hel…
>I'm not an engineer but I can draw up a bridge right now. Would it stand or collapse? Who knows. I think it looks nice though so I post it online. Then an actual engineer sees my drawing and makes an actual bridge out of it. Right, it's not the publishing but the use which is proscribed - same applies for engineering. But that would apply regardless of whether the software you're using is open-source or not, and reg…
> it's not the publishing but the use which is proscribed - same applies for engineering
Exactly.
I think there should be an exception for free and open source software though. We have lots of free software designed to be used by people. I don't think these programmers should be held liable. Many of them are amateurs and volunteers. The chilling effect would simply be too great.
I'm reminded of Greg Kroah-Hartman's talk about kernel contributors.
https://youtu.be/fMeH7wqOwXA&t=326s
> My goal, of me, as a developer and to make Linux succeed, is to help [amateurs, unknown individuals] out.
> If you're hired to do this stuff, you're on your own and you better know what you're doing.
I think he's right. At the time, roughly 20% of the kernel was done by individuals. That work is extremely valuable yet it is different from professional work. It should be treated differently. with a lot more compassion and understanding. On the other hand, it is fine to expect professionals to be disciplined.
> A social-media site operated by an amateur in the bedroom being paid nothing and using only open-source software would still be liable under any sensible and realistic regulation.
Yeah, I agree. That's not just software anymore, that's a service.
> e.g. create a non-profit, and pay the non-profit which pays the programmer. So long as the programmer is one step removed from you it's fine.
It doesn't matter how indirect it is. The important fact is the programmer is getting paid for their work. That makes it professional work.
Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens
#200Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought we, the liberals, are mostly aligned that non-violent climes should not be punishable by prison time.
I have never seen a stat or survey that suggests that.
That's been my general observation. I see the following hypocrisy: Murderers and violent crimes should require rehabilitation, better lives in the prison and discussion here tends to be more around pro-forgiveness ideology; whilst I also see liberals suggesting that politicians and corporate leaders should be punished by prison terms.
Apart from my own observation, non-punishment of non-violent crimes is a cornerstone of liberal criminal justice reform (Prop 57, 20, etc.).