Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets • Hacker News Board

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#51

Post by josephcsible » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

fergie wrote: post #49

The author makes the mistake of associating cycling with head injuries. In fact, for young people the risk of head injury on a bike is significantly lower than the risk of contracting Covid on campus.

The risk of contracting COVID at all? Maybe. The risk of harm from COVID as serious as a head injury? No way.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#52

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

[deleted]

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#53

Post by Delk » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:56 PM UTC

Masks protect others, not just the wearer, perhaps even with an emphasis on the others. That might create a stronger social pressure for wearing a mask, and avoidance of stigma might compel people to wear one even in situations where it doesn't actually do much.

There may be lots of other factors in play considering that these kinds of choices are largely social, so this might not actually be the reason the students make those choices, but that's a fairly obvious difference.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#54

Post by oefrha » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

And you have bike thieves screwing your wheels loose for whatever reason. Bike theft was a big problem at least when I was at Stanford years ago, and my front wheel once came off when I was biking (thankfully I was wearing a helmet). Guy at bike shop speculated that it was the handiwork of a thief, who might have been interrupted mid act.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#55

Post by mike_h » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #46

retrac wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Just falling over on the bike while stationary (I admit I've managed this before) without being able to partially break your fall. could outright kill you if your head hits the pavement. (An uncontrolled fall from standing height to concrete such as by fainting can kill.) Even if you don't die, head impacts are really bad for the brain.

The statistics don’t lie. Biking in the Netherlands is incredibly safe even without helmet wearing. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09257... Turns out there are other ways to make cycling safe. One could argue that helmet wearing might make it even safer, but we are talking about optimizing a number that is already very low. I’ve been to Stanford before and the campus is pretty car free. It is…

Biking could indeed be even safer in the Netherlands if people wore helmets:

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/neur.2020.0010

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014...

Arguing that it’s a small optimization is one thing, but that doesn’t mean it’s “not needed”.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#56

Post by 99_00 » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

Helmets mess up your hair.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#57

Post by the-dude » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

mike_h wrote: post #55

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statistics don’t lie. Biking in the Netherlands is incredibly safe even without helmet wearing. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09257... Turns out there are other ways to make cycling safe. One could argue that helmet wearing might make it even safer, but we are talking about optimizing a number that is already very low. I’ve been to Stanford before and the campus is pretty car free. It is…

Biking could indeed be even safer in the Netherlands if people wore helmets: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/neur.2020.0010 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... Arguing that it’s a small optimization is one thing, but that doesn’t mean it’s “not needed”.

But you look like a dork. And what about your hair?

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#58

Post by 13415 » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:58 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #27

For those who say "you don't need a helmet on campus," there's a simple science-based way to test your theory: Look at the stats on brain injuries for bicycle accidents on campus. [1] has anecdotes, but no stats, unfortunately. You have other bikes to collide with, you have people crossing the path, and yes, there are cars on campus. I've driven there. [1] https://transportation.stanford.edu/bicycle/learn-about-bike.…

Strange anecdote: I once organized a workshop on reasoning about uncertainty and one of the attendants was a health official working on bike accident statistics. According to her, if going solely by the statistics, helmets would have to be prohibited in our country because people riding bikes with helmets had a significantly elevated risk of grave traffic accidents in comparison to those without helmets. Of course, she also said that you really couldn't use the statistics in this way and we agreed that it seemed likely that helmets could prevent serious head injuries.

Still, it was an odd finding. Presumably, people with helmets drove faster or more carelessly but she did not have any evidence for that at the time.

Edit (just in case): 1. I'm not an expert on any of this and it's just an anecdote. 2. I recommend wearing a good, certified helmet.

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#59

Post by cratermoon » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #11

The same is true in the Netherlands. Honestly, if they are biking around campus, they don’t need helmets. Helmets are needed on American roads because of poor biking infrastructure (not an issue on campus or in the Netherlands). The article is taking liberties using nationwide statistics to criticize local behavior.

Thought experiment: what if we looked at wearing a helmet as a choice the same way that anti-vaxxers would say the COVID-19 vaccine is a choice? If so, should people who choose not to wear a helmet while bicycling be subjected to the same social and economic consequences as people who "choose" not to get vaccinated?

Re: Stanford students are more likely to wear masks on bicycles than helmets

#60

Post by shusaku » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:00 PM UTC

ajkjk wrote: post #33

I'm pretty sure it's just that they need their mask wherever they're going and it's easier to hop on and hop off with it than stow it away.

Here in Japan you’ll literally see people alone in their cars with a mask. Maybe half the cars that pass have a masked driver. Obviously it makes no sense, but again if you need a mask where you’re coming from and going to, it just fades into the background.