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Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

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31–40 of 93 posts

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#31
post #19

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxycododone, etc. If you look at the Nature abstract linked from the news article, all they claim there is that the analgesic effects can be, "as strong as morphine." This also a protein which is inherently more expensive and difficult to turn into a drug compare…

Also diamorphine (heroine), which has several advantages over morphine and is used medically outside the USA.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#32
post #10

FTA: They admit to being completely baffled about why the mamba would produce it. I would guess it keeps their target calm. A panicking prey is more likely to injure the snake than one that dies before it realizes it got seriously bitten.

> being completely baffled about why the mamba would produce it

Is it delivered in a dose sufficient to cause unconsciousness, or even just euphoric lethargy in its prey? If so, that sounds both effective and weirdly sweet, given nature's usual barbarism.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#34
post #8

I really hope this goes somewhere. I've been left on the curbside with a caduceus up my backside because of self-righteousness, paranoia and hysterics. If an analgesic can be created without committing the atrocity of inadvertently imparting a synthetic sense of wellbeing too, much suffering would end. Just don't poison it with acetaminophen! Maybe I'll abandon my unfruitful hunt for opium lettuce and raise snakes in…

I understand exactly what you're saying and it's a shame you're currently being downvoted. People up in arms against opioids and in favor of all the restrictions that keep people suffering have clearly never experienced chronic pain. I don't want to downplay addiction risk, but everyone I have ever seen get addicted had it happen with severe mitigating circumstances like job loss, general financial insecurity, family history of addiction, things that made them susceptible. It was never just the pain and the painkillers. I took oxycodone for three years and never got addicted. It helped get me through the absolute worst years of my life until enough surgeries and physical therapy finally got me basically functional again. I guess I'm just lucky my doctors and insurers never gave into the pressure not to prescribe them, but I don't even know now what it would be like given the present state of legislation. My wife suffers from this tremendously on the other side, adult ADHD treated successfully and easily with Adderall, but it can't be filled out of state, can't be filled in advance. Makes it awfully difficult to work a job that requires 25% travel.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#36

shii...strap a tube to my arm and hit me with that mamba juice. be flying for hours... or more likely arrested for animal abuse, but hey, imagine being the cool druggie who can get high and defend his territory with a snake. this under-bridge be mine.

Must be why this man does this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucpGlWnq8EE

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#37
There is a lot of research aiming to produce strong, non-opioid pain killers from venom peptides, from spiders, centipedes, sea anemones and other creatures.

These peptides have an action on sodium channels, specifically Nav1.7, so the article doesn't seem particularly surprising (although the article was from 2012, so it might have been back then).

We already have several drugs that work on sodium channels, but they are non-selective, and there are several sub-types of sodium channel with different uses - such as regulating heart beat. The challenge, is to produce a drug that selectively blocks sodium channel Nav1.7 - the idea being that this will reduce pain while not affecting your heart etc.

I suffer from chronic neuropathic pain, so I've been somewhat following this research for a while.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#39
post #19

The title is not good--lots of meds are betting than morphine...that's why we have all the other opioids: hydromorphone, fentanyl, remifentinil, sufentinil, oxycododone, etc. If you look at the Nature abstract linked from the news article, all they claim there is that the analgesic effects can be, "as strong as morphine." This also a protein which is inherently more expensive and difficult to turn into a drug compare…

Those drugs aren't better, in my experience, as a chronic pain patient. Morphine is way less addictive, longer lasting, with fewer side effects. Not to mention, it's natural, one of the main alkaloids from poppy. Now, I'm not a dolt who thinks natural is better. However, most synthetics are strictly worse from a therapeutic standpoint. This view is based on my experience with them and from my discussions with other patients. From what I understand, the synthetics are pushed on patients for incentives. I had to pretty much demand morphine instead of oxy. Thanks Sackler family!

Morphine XR (MSCont) is also pushed instead of normal morphine, again, I think for similar reasons. Although on the surface, it might seem like an XR would be helpful. Instead it just causes more constipation and doesn't give a great absorption profile.

Morphine IR 30mgs taken throughout the day pretty much vaniquished my pain. These days though, I use Kratom, Mitragyna Speciosa. It's as effective as morphine with less side effects. I also try to work out every day. Having strong muscles in the painful areas seems to help with the pain, either due to increased blood flow or perhaps for other reasons.

Nucynta (Tapentadol) was the most effective synthetic opioid I ever used but without insurance it cost me $3000 a bottle. Kratom is cheap as dirt even without insurance. $70-80 buys 1 kilo / 2.5 pounds of the ground up leaf. I have enough kratom in my cabinets to last a covid apocalypse.

You can get lab tested Kratom that is cGMP certified these days. I have nothing to gain by providing this information, just happy I found a pain reliever that is sustainable and doesn't require talking to a doctor playing a drug pusher every month.

Lots of people have had bad experiences with kratom giving them headaches/nausea. This is largely due to poor quality kratom from head-shops and gas stations or from consuming excessive doses. Never buy Kratom that isn't lab tested with GC/MS. And don't take too much of any opioid unless you want motion sickness.

Re: Black mamba venom is 'better painkiller' than morphine (2012)

#40

Surprised they didn't say whether it causes constipation. That's one of the most annoying side effects of morphine for most people. (Maybe the original Nature article addresses this but it's paywalled.)

I passed a kidney stone a month and a half ago, and switched from a codeine-based painkiller to ibuprofen because of the constipation. (Also, for me, at least at the prescribed dose, codeine-with-acetaminophen/paracetamol gave less pain relief than 400 mg of ibuprofen. I'm also aware that morphine is significantly stronger than codeine.) The increased abdominal pressure from the constipation probably helped the stone pass a bit faster, but it also certainly seemed to increase the pain.

On a side note, drink plenty of water. 42 is pretty young for passing a kidney stone. Working from home this past year, my wife would give me a hard time that some days I drank only 500 mL or so of water. (I drank plenty of coffee in the office, but cutting down on coffee while working from home unfortunately didn't translate into replacing coffee with water.) My urologist says I should be drinking at least 30 mL of water per kg body mass per day. Yes, most of our food is mostly water, but at least for me, that didn't cut it. I've heard people compare passing a kidney stone to childbirth, but I'm sure that's a gross exaggeration. A really bad hangover is worse, but a kidney stone is painful enough that I was pretty useless for 5 days and could only sleep in a really hot bath, and then only for about 1-2 hours per day. You don't want a kidney stone.

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