Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#171

Post by pclmulqdq » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:15 PM UTC

lucidguppy wrote: post #140

dvhh wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like using more nuclear power ?

Nuclear power can't come online fast enough. We shouldn't needlessly decommission plants like Germany did. There's an opportunity cost here - we need to make "power plant factories" rather than just "power plants". So if we could make green energy factories and nuke plant factories, that would be better than making one off nuke plants that take so long to get approved.

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, but the second best time is today. By continuing to oppose low-carbon base load power that is politically unpopular, climate activists are showing the world that they don't really believe there's a crisis.

Put another way, they are saying: "there's just enough of a crisis for us to take things from you, but not enough for us to sacrifice anything ourselves."

Also, with investment in nuclear plants, the cost and time to build one will decrease, but someone needs to put up the money to make that happen.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#172

Post by fdschoeneman » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:16 PM UTC

jay_kyburz wrote: post #119

fdschoeneman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Americans and Australians have proven over and over again that they will accept changes that negatively impact their lives and wallets, most recently the voluntary and involuntary changes that negatively affected their lives and wallets due to COVID-19.

I realize it was a little disrespectful of me to dismiss the many people who have made huge sacrifices to help prevent the virus both here in Australia and the US. The lockdowns have been very tough, and many businesses ruined. I'm in a two week quarantine after a close contact in a supermarket right now. I should have suggested that "some" people will not change, and they will be very vocal. Many politicians will wa…

I think you're just frustrated at what you believe is the inability of other people to see a danger you do. I suppose I'm one of those people. I didn't find your comparison to covid disrespectful, it just seemed to undermine your belief that carbon sequestration was the only way to go.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#173

Post by rndgermandude » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:18 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #162

rndgermandude wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Eg, Obamacare would probably have been described as dragging the US into the 21st century and getting somewhere close to what every other modern democracy has offered for decades. Uhm, no. Obamacare is basically a Republican brainchild, mostly conceptualized by the Heritage Foundation in the late 1980s. I wouldn't describe it as dragging the US into the 21st century... more like dragging it barely into the 20th cent…

Obamacare didn't make anything better. The simultaneous Medicaid expansion made things better.

I'd agree that the Medicaid expansion was far more effective than Obamacare in improving things, but Obamacare had some positive outcomes too.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#174

Post by tomrod » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:20 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #59

jay_kyburz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans (and Australians) will never accept any changes that negatively impact their lives or wallets. Especially when the consequences of climate change are not clear and present. As democracies, we will simply vote out any government that asks us to change our ways. I think Covid19 demonstrates how resistant people are to change, and that they are not willing to make sacrifices for the greater good. Nearly 700,00…

And there lies the difference that made my grandparents generation, albeit on the Allied side of WW2, the greatest generation. Not the willingness to go to war, that was enforced by drafts all over the globe back then. It was rather the total revamping of the economy, industry and society to support the war against the Nazis and Imperial Japanese. The UK went to rationing, and still people carried on in global strugg…

[flagged]

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#175

Post by tomrod » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:22 PM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #145

refurb wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re saying unions don’t represent labor?

No I said : > This is the first time I have seen the word labor used in the context of US politics.

It's a fairly common term. Ie Labor day, AFL union. But it doesn't have as common of a linguistic relationship it did in prior decades. I bet it's one of those things you'll start seeing everywhere.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#176

Post by fdschoeneman » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:24 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #164

fdschoeneman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Americans and Australians have proven over and over again that they will accept changes that negatively impact their lives and wallets, most recently the voluntary and involuntary changes that negatively affected their lives and wallets due to COVID-19.

A sizable fraction - haven't- accepted these changes, hence why the disease persists at massive levels in the US.

Whether or not it's fair to blame this minority for the persistence of the disease and its variants is irrelevant to the argument he was making.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#177

Post by cpursley » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:28 PM UTC

user-the-name wrote: post #168

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, if someone predicted the apocalypse was right around the corner, and the only way to avert it was to dramatically change my lifestyle in a way that was orthogonal to the catastrophe... I'd say you're peddling religion. Especially if I don't change, and the doomsday prophecies fail. (Again, and again, and again...)

What you want to say is, you don't believe in science.

I really wish this phase could be banned. It's tiresome and in bad faith.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#178

Post by andrew_ » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:30 PM UTC

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #149

AussieWog93 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if the past year of climate catastrophes has shown us anything, it’s high time we act. This same rhetoric has been repeated for decades, and has continually received the same, hostile response from the public and politicians. I'm not arguing that it's wrong or untruthful, but alarmist statements like this are a demonstrably poor tool for rousing the public into action…

You know, if someone predicted the apocalypse was right around the corner, and the only way to avert it was to dramatically change my lifestyle in a way that was orthogonal to the catastrophe... I'd say you're peddling religion. Especially if I don't change, and the doomsday prophecies fail. (Again, and again, and again...)

There's been 50 years of climate catastrophe predictions and the one constant is that [everyone] passionate about it has a wicked case of confirmation bias.

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#179

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:34 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #127

hef19898 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there lies the difference that made my grandparents generation, albeit on the Allied side of WW2, the greatest generation. Not the willingness to go to war, that was enforced by drafts all over the globe back then. It was rather the total revamping of the economy, industry and society to support the war against the Nazis and Imperial Japanese. The UK went to rationing, and still people carried on in global strugg…

The US government has a problem with wasteful spending, not collecting enough money. Higher taxes will just mean more waste.

[deleted]

Re: Apple and Disney among companies backing groups against US climate bill

#180

Post by wdn » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 12:40 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #169

Factorium wrote: post #152

The best solution to climate change is a price on Carbon. Anything else is just pork. If we don't want to impose a carbon price on ourselves, we can do it to others via import tariffs.

I disagree: It might be part of the solution, but simply taxing carbon means that rich folks or companies can pollute. We need green methods put into law to force folks to cut their emissions and pollutants - and punish those who run afoul of the laws, including steep fines, possible business shutdowns, and personal liability/criminal charges for CEOS and other folks running the company, especially if they cover up t…

Exactly this.

We are seeing Bill Gates telling us HOW to save the planet for being the biggest person polluter but he CAN buy carbon credit to offset his carbon footprint. Hypocrite!