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Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

nytimes.com

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Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#71

Post by BrianOnHN »

yoz-y wrote: post #22
tablespoon wrote: post #18

> Facebook annotated the reports, appearing to downplay the results. Next to one slide in the research that said “teens who struggle with mental health say Instagram makes it worse,” the company added that the headline was imprecise. Instead, it wrote, “The headline should be clarified to be: ‘Teens who have lower life satisfaction more likely to say Instagram makes their mental health or the way they feel about them…

I know that angst you teen is a trope but where I was most teens were quite happy. School ends early, plenty of time and zero responsibilities. You can just spend most of time loitering. Also hangover passes super quickly so you don’t waste a whole day after a party.

> You can just spend most of time loitering. Also hangover passes super quickly so you don’t waste a whole day after a party.

I started work at 15, so no responsibility-less loitering for me. And those hangovers can only happen if you save up enough cash after paying for school lunch and car insurance, which the 6-month cost was about the same as the price of my car $1000.

My guess is that the "happy" sample size came from the Kardashian/Jenner family. Given that they have a lot to lose here, I would think, as well.

And yes, I technically got "free" lunch, but do you want to be in THAT line? I mean, the cool kids are in the subway and burger line for a bargain of $6 a lunch... So why wouldn't I do that, too?

Thank goodness I didn't have an incessant window into all their lives outside of school, while I was working 30-40 hour weeks at 7/hr.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#72

Post by DrBazza »

hkaly wrote: post #3

Irony is Facebook will not attract the talent it needs to work constructively on these unsolvable problems. It will attract thd clueless and the most ambitious. People who are ready to defend it for their own profit. Its a trap where the hole they are in just keeps growing deeper.

I've been approached by FB recruiters 3 times and turned them down 3 times. I've removed FB from all my devices except one. The only thing keeping me on the platform is that my sports clubs use it to organise matches and runs. I check FB once a day. All notifications are off.

I really don't want anything to do with them. I'd still work for a military software developer. But not Facebook.

Frankly, I was also surprised recently, though I shouldn't be, that there are (or were) some quite 'famous' developers / comp-sci researchers working there.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#73

Post by sekh60 »

FDSGSG wrote: post #49
matheusmoreira wrote: post #29

Good. Facebook should not be able to "quell" anything. It should suffer the full consequences of its actions every single time.

How do you define "full consequences"?

Corporate death penalty plus prison time for relevant people. How wide to cast the net would have to be worked out.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#74

Post by hoppyhoppy2 »

vadfa wrote: post #40

Quell uproar? What uproar? Has the usage of instagram taken a dive? Or is this just the usual fake outrage pushed by the media that hates Facebook?

Perhaps you missed the news about the US Senate hearing on Thursday? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/technology/facebook-senat...

(archive links: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/... / https://archive.is/newest/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30...)

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#75

Post by yyyk »

hansel_der wrote: post #52
matheusmoreira wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> software "engineering" doesn't have any certification / professional credentialing that "real" engineering (e.g., civil engineering) apparently does have Yeah and I hope it stays that way. Imagine needing a license to write software. It would mean the end of free and open source software as we know it. > Does anyone have any information about how effective such training / indoctrination is in preventing bad situati…

> Imagine needing a license to write software. It would mean the end of free and open source software as we know it. i don't think so because as you said: > It's about legal responsibility and liability. Make professional programmers directly responsible for the code they get paid to write. we urgently need liability for for-profit software in order to stop softwares race to the bottom.

>we urgently need liability for for-profit software in order to stop software's race to the bottom.

If we're going to do that, there's no good reason to give a special exclusion for not-for-profit software.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#76

Post by yoz-y »

BrianOnHN wrote: post #71
yoz-y wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that angst you teen is a trope but where I was most teens were quite happy. School ends early, plenty of time and zero responsibilities. You can just spend most of time loitering. Also hangover passes super quickly so you don’t waste a whole day after a party.

> You can just spend most of time loitering. Also hangover passes super quickly so you don’t waste a whole day after a party. I started work at 15, so no responsibility-less loitering for me. And those hangovers can only happen if you save up enough cash after paying for school lunch and car insurance, which the 6-month cost was about the same as the price of my car $1000. My guess is that the "happy" sample size cam…

Hence the “where I lived qualification”, which was btw 90’s in Eastern Europe. People around usually had two working parents and no need to have jobs themselves. Of course nobody except a fiend who regularly “borrowed” their parents’ car had one (since you can drive only at 18 here).

I can definitely see that if you hoist adult responsibilities on kids it’s super stressful, but that is not normal everywhere.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#77

Post by hahajk »

pjmlp wrote: post #26
MikeTheGreat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that United States engineers still do this... but software "engineering" is famously (and self-deprecating-ly) not really "real engineering". I say this as someone who programs, teaches programming/computer science, and has worked professionally as a software development engineer - the comment isn't made to denigrate anyone, but because software "engineering" doesn't have any certification / professiona…

It certainly does, just not in US. https://www.ordemengenheiros.pt/pt/a-ordem/colegios-e-especi... No Portuguese university is allowed to call their computing degrees engineering without their approval, and in certain kinds of state related projects, the one putting their signature into the legal contracts has to have the professional title acknowledged. Germany and Switzerland have a similar process for those carryi…

Even in the US computer engineering degrees require licensing and are different than “software engineering”, which is actually a specialty within computer science.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#78

Post by ffiw »

arthurcolle wrote: post #41
vadfa wrote: post #40

Quell uproar? What uproar? Has the usage of instagram taken a dive? Or is this just the usual fake outrage pushed by the media that hates Facebook?

Last couple days ~ many articles related to an ex- Top Mind @ Facebook who asserted that they 1) knew effects of insta on young children's minds, 2) used these incantations for profit, 3) tried to hide it, and 4) downplayed the relevance of the previous 3 in order to pursue their yotta-growth strategy at the expense of human civilization. On the back of the findings from a couple of weeks ago that most human traffick…

I think CSAM & human trafficking is happening on every platform possible, the only reason may be Facebook might be at the top because they are actively working with law enforcement. But saying crimes are happening because of facebook is dishonest.

As far as I know the only social media company that didn't have any political leanings is Facebook. I think that's the only reason it is getting targeted repeatedly in the political circles and in the media. For me every rich tech/social media companies are same including Google, Apple & Facebook. At least Facebook didn't collude with other companies to suppress salaries of their employees. Open up every company and they would be caught doing same thing as Facebook.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#79

Post by Nextgrid »

cblconfederate wrote: post #53

We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company, and it has always been, and it's just sad to see the support it gets among technologists. Zuck doesn't strike me as particularly deep thi…

> Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company

I don't want to defend Facebook, but this is not specific to Facebook. We have legitimized the modern concept of targeted advertising and Facebook just happens to play the game perfectly.

Facebook is not 100% fault here (in fact there are others in this space). The fault is that we don't have regulation against something that is clearly detrimental to society. Change that, and Facebook will become better (or be replaced by something better).

Edit: to be clear, I do not want to defend Facebook. I don't use it, I hate it and its effects on society, and its monopoly on social media online is a constant problem for me. However, I don't believe killing Facebook by itself will solve the problem as it will merely allow an equally-scummy competitor to take its place.

Outlawing the underlying business model or making it unprofitable (such as by attaching liability to ads, stronger privacy protections, revoking Section 230, etc) would be a better long-term solution.

Re: Facebook Struggles to Quell Uproar over Instagram’s Effect on Teens

#80

Post by atonse »

Nextgrid wrote: post #79
cblconfederate wrote: post #53

We don't even need clinical reporting to tell that instagram has a bad effect on teens. Just observe a teenager of your family to see the values that are being taught through it. Is this how you want the next generation to be? Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company, and it has always been, and it's just sad to see the support it gets among technologists. Zuck doesn't strike me as particularly deep thi…

> Facebook is such a terrible human manipulation company I don't want to defend Facebook, but this is not specific to Facebook. We have legitimized the modern concept of targeted advertising and Facebook just happens to play the game perfectly. Facebook is not 100% fault here (in fact there are others in this space). The fault is that we don't have regulation against something that is clearly detrimental to society.…

Facebook is 100% at fault for what Facebook does though. Not to say others aren’t.

I’m not interested in giving them an inch. They’ve probably caused more psychological harm and manipulation (intentionally, via “engagement” algorithms) than just about any human propaganda movement in history.

I still don’t understand how people with any ethics still work for them. I guess 500k a year is enough to look away from anything.

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