Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks • Hacker News Board

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#11

Post by silisili » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:43 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #2

The price of everything, from my perspective, has gone insane within the last few months. I would __much__ rather the market were satisfied with more houses, apartments, everything such that people could afford to live places and thus inflation / stagflation weren't the natural result of everyone trying to get ahead and increasing just their own wage. All of the other aspects of the jobs, such as safety conditions an…

Housing is the big factor. When it went insane, people who were on the edge of being able to afford housing got forced out. That was a whole lot of people. And when you lose your dream, what's the point of trying anymore?

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#12

Post by simfree » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:44 AM UTC

droptablemain wrote: post #9

sandworm101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be basic supply and demand, but I think we are beyond that. Demand for the product (housing) has moved beyond basic consumers (people who want to live in them). Real estate is now a primary investment vehicle. So building more doesn't necessarily mean more houses for people to live in. Rather it will mean more investment opportunities for people seeking to move money into a "safe" asset. That is the cycle…

The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing. I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit.

The state building affordable and midrange housing does have precedent in Finland, where municipal employees build the majority of homes, leaving the upper mid-range and high end homes to be built by private developers.

They do tightly manage where each type of residence is built, from what I hear the goal is to avoid the creation of exclusively wealthy or poor neighborhoods as their existence damages society.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#13

Post by TeeMassive » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:48 AM UTC

droptablemain wrote: post #9

sandworm101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be basic supply and demand, but I think we are beyond that. Demand for the product (housing) has moved beyond basic consumers (people who want to live in them). Real estate is now a primary investment vehicle. So building more doesn't necessarily mean more houses for people to live in. Rather it will mean more investment opportunities for people seeking to move money into a "safe" asset. That is the cycle…

The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing. I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit.

> The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing.

These have never worked and are full of pervert effects. It's at best a band aid.

> I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem.

> I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit.

That's a cool political slogan, however nobody will build a housing without a profit and nobody is entitled to other people's labor.

Making sure that houses are not left empty and sane zoning rules are more likely to result in viable changes. Absurdly low interest rates are also to blame.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#14

Post by reducesuffering » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:51 AM UTC

droptablemain wrote: post #9

sandworm101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be basic supply and demand, but I think we are beyond that. Demand for the product (housing) has moved beyond basic consumers (people who want to live in them). Real estate is now a primary investment vehicle. So building more doesn't necessarily mean more houses for people to live in. Rather it will mean more investment opportunities for people seeking to move money into a "safe" asset. That is the cycle…

The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing. I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit.

The market has shown it's ill-equiped? I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

There are zoning codes everywhere, environmental review, city permits, etc, that the small amount of successful projects will of course be the minimal low hanging fruit. Literally all of this problem is "the state."

Let people build buildings on their own land. It will supply far more housing than any state backed affordable housing and will break the housing-as-investment pitfall by breaking the supply-constraint that causes people to treat it that way.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#15

Post by pasquinelli » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 3:53 AM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #4

There are some people trying to organize a general strike for October 15th. I just see mentions of it on social media, but I have yet to hear of any big unions getting involved.

wouldn't be the first time there's been chatter online about a general strike. it won't happen because we aren't there, not even remotely. there is no class consciousness.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#16

Post by refurb » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

droptablemain wrote: post #9

sandworm101 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be basic supply and demand, but I think we are beyond that. Demand for the product (housing) has moved beyond basic consumers (people who want to live in them). Real estate is now a primary investment vehicle. So building more doesn't necessarily mean more houses for people to live in. Rather it will mean more investment opportunities for people seeking to move money into a "safe" asset. That is the cycle…

The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing. I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit.

The market is ill-equipped? Prior government interventions in housing are driving most of the price inflation and investment.

Every time they come up with a new way to help people buy houses they just further drive up the price.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#17

Post by foerbert » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:00 AM UTC

TeeMassive wrote: post #13

droptablemain wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing. I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit.

> The state needs to build a slew of affordable housing. These have never worked and are full of pervert effects. It's at best a band aid. > I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. > I think the market has shown quite clearly it's ill-equipped to deal with the problem. Housing needs to be built for the purpose of housing people rather than the purpose of making profit. T…

You started by dismissing the proposed solution out of hand and then went on to attack a strawman.

You do end with a couple ideas of your own, but overall I find this comment more disingenuous than not.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#18

Post by djd8d637yehd » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:02 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #2

The price of everything, from my perspective, has gone insane within the last few months. I would __much__ rather the market were satisfied with more houses, apartments, everything such that people could afford to live places and thus inflation / stagflation weren't the natural result of everyone trying to get ahead and increasing just their own wage. All of the other aspects of the jobs, such as safety conditions an…

Thank zoning regulations and the entirety of the green crowd from the clinate activists to the animal rights groups. Nothing that hasn't been replaced is more expensive to produce now than in the past. Regulations motivated by classist priorities are the reason costs aren't able to be pushed back down.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#19

Post by conspiracist » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:03 AM UTC

The Bourgeois use the Proletariat as a tool to overtake power from the owners and royal blood.

Labor unrest works the other way: the owners, comfortably tucked away in their mansions in places that are guarded and far away from prying eyes (think Zuckerberg, but multiplied further), are egging the proles on to riot and therefore to keep the opposition in check, while they, as always, are out of sight and out of mind. You would be laughed out of any discussion suggesting that this was all orchestrated by a group of people who own the world. Such a thing, as we all know, is unheard of.

The rioters are unaware of the owners, but they think that whoever they are aware of are the people to protest against, and that these people (the PMC+ class) are guilty for arranging the circumstances that has befallen the proles. As always, it’s a clever play of misdirection and it works wonders.

It’s a dark twisted game, but that’s how it works and that’s how it’s played.

Re: Wave of US labor unrest could see tens of thousands on strike within weeks

#20

Post by TeeMassive » Sat, Oct 02, 2021, 4:05 AM UTC

eigengrau5150 wrote: post #7

goda90 wrote: post #4

There are some people trying to organize a general strike for October 15th. I just see mentions of it on social media, but I have yet to hear of any big unions getting involved.

You won't see the big, "respectable" unions get involved because under the Taft-Hartley Act general strikes are pretty much illegal. https://web.archive.org/web/20120501041417/http://inthesetim... The thing is, they can't arrest everybody without turning the USA into more of a prison than it already is and setting the stage for John Carpenter's ESCAPE FROM AMERICA. October 15 is a good day for a strike, but in the US…

> https://octoberstrike.com/

Too bad they mixed political ideology in what would have been otherwise a unifying populist movement. Remember, most socialists are upper middle class and above.

> Our Goals:

    25% corporate tax rate (No loopholes)

    Free Healthcare for all

    12 weeks paid paternity and maternity leave

    $20 minimum wage

    4 day work week

    Stricter Environmental Regulations on Corporations (Bans on single use and micro plastics, and limited emissions)

For some reasons every socialist I talk to actually think a 15-25 hours week of work is sufficient for society to function, I never really got a good explanation how productivity will increase to accommodate such a drastic drop in labor outside of theoretical predictions.

Also:

Corporations can move, and re-invest their profits. Such high profit taxes are usually counter-productive. Loopholes will always exist. You can't stop them from leaving. There is a reason that most western countries US barely produces anything outside of IP and petrodollar.

Free Healthcare for all is a lie. Nothing is free. Positive rights lead to slavery or worker revolts and shortage. We are living this right now in Canada, nurses are tired of doing obligatory overtime. They're just quitting. Hospitals are closing, literally. The US health care system is inefficient due to litigation and regulations pushed by lobbying to maintain private monopolies.

High minimum wage will just accelerate automation and the disappearance of low-skills jobs.