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The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

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Re: The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

#12
post #11

What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising? The effectiveness of online ads is easily measurable: Return on ad spend (ROAS) = (revenue from ad referrals) - (money spent on ads)

> revenue from ad referrals

And exactly how do you get accurate figures for that?

Re: The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

#13
I remember reading this article back in 2019 when it was originally written. Unclear why it is being dusted off now when it is still just as wrong as it was then.

Yes, it is probably hard for a large, well-known brand like eBay or Procter & Gamble or Coca-Cola to measure their return from online advertising. If Coca-Cola stopped all advertising for 1 week, would anything really change? Probably not. And it’s not as if anyone is clicking Google search ads for Coca-Cola and ordering a 6-pack right there. This is the same problem that these companies have with TV advertising.

But anyone who has ever run a small, consumer-focused startup with low brand recognition can very easily measure their return on ad spend, and will spend a lot of time doing this. You can easily tell which specific ad referred someone to your website, and how much money they spent once they got there.

If they’re not convinced by this data, at some point most startups will find the opportunity to simply turn off all advertising for a week for one reason or another. And can usually see the drop in revenue immediately.

I was involved in a consumer hardware startup where our COO shared granular ROAS numbers in our all-hands every week for Google, Facebook, TV advertising across multiple networks, etc. They regularly A/B tested different advertisements and messages across different media and directly optimized for revenue. It was clear beyond a doubt that this advertising worked. The company would not have been viable without it.

The fact that this proof is easily and readily available from small, lesser-known companies is part of why large companies continue to spend money on advertising despite the benefits being much harder to measure.

Re: The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

#14
post #11

What do we really know about the effectiveness of digital advertising? The effectiveness of online ads is easily measurable: Return on ad spend (ROAS) = (revenue from ad referrals) - (money spent on ads)

> revenue from ad referrals And exactly how do you get accurate figures for that?

It’s simple. You use a URL with the campaign id, and store that when the customer clicks through, then when a sale is made you count that towards the campaign. In offline advertising people would achieve this using campaign-specific phone numbers or discount code given in the ad.

Online advertising math is not rocket science. If ROAS is positive you continue the campaign, if not you abandon it or try other methods.

Re: The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

#15
Oh wow, this is an older article. Read it before, it was much discussed and here we are 2 years later.

Market effects from the pandemic have reinforced the reliance on online advertising (more hours spent online by individuals working remote, growth of streaming services).

Re: The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

#16

This sounds great and I want to believe it, but it feels like another case of someone saying the sky is falling when it clearly hasn't. What will it take for this advertising bubble to pop? Is it even a bubble?

Funnily enough, the ad based tech companies have the most reasonable stock prices. Facebook and Google are massively profitable, still growing at double digit rates, and each have only mid twenties PE ratios (the same as Caterpillar Heavy Equipment, or electric utilities like ConEd and PG&E). Meanwhile there are companies out there like Lordstown Motors, Lucid, and Nikola, which have never sold a product but have bil…

They are naive, they really think advertising doesn’t work. It works it’s ass off. You can’t find one identity that isn’t influenced by it.

Real programmers use vim. I could sell that for ages. Don’t play games with advertising, you are just as much of a cuck as everyone else (rhetorically speaking, not you specifically).

Anyways, real programmers read HN. I could sell that forever. You think you’re smarter than all of this? Real programmers _______, and by god, you will fucking buy it. Here’s some Rust for you, you real programmer. I’ll inundate you, this stuff works.

Re: The new dot com bubble is online advertising (2019)

#19
post #13

I remember reading this article back in 2019 when it was originally written. Unclear why it is being dusted off now when it is still just as wrong as it was then. Yes, it is probably hard for a large, well-known brand like eBay or Procter & Gamble or Coca-Cola to measure their return from online advertising. If Coca-Cola stopped all advertising for 1 week, would anything really change? Probably not. And it’s not as i…

To be fair, the point of the article is that ROAS is not a very good metric, and while most of the article is wrong in that it effectively calls all advertising worthless as a result, it's not wrong about that one methodological point. What matters is incremental ROAS - not the conversions following exposure, but rather the conversions that would not have happened but for the exposure. For small companies that have no existing awareness, they're close to the same thing. But like you said, it is very hard to measure for the large brand advertisers that are very well-penetrated.

If Coke switched off their advertising they would eventually lose market share, but it would take more than one Christmas of not seeing the polar bears. For companies in their position, advertising is about maintaining dominance. Spending on a Superbowl ad is a way for them to say "we're the best, we know it, and you know it, and when you want a drink, you're going to buy Coke, not RC Cola". It takes a long, long time for that indoctrination to wear off, so there's no way to experiment on it - there's no untouched part of the market that's never seen a Coke ad against which you can do an A/B test.

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