Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
quantamagazine.org
Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
1–10 of 102 posts
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#2“ Well, it must minimize the uncertainty of the states that it’s in. I have to actively resist the second law of thermodynamics, so I don’t dissipate into all kinds of states. “
People often make this rhetorical mistake when speaking about the second law. Entropy is increasing full steam ahead, and what looks like a small bit of order is revealed to be hiding ‘the man behind the curtain’ i.e. a massive increase in entropy through the expulsion of heat, so more things in the universe can enter higher entropy states in vibrational modes, rotational modes, etc.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#3Does anyone else feel like Quanta is mostly a hype machine? I hear about seemingly earth shattering research there and never hear about it again.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#4alternative title: Anil Seth rediscovers the Law of Requisite Variety.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#5Does anyone else feel like Quanta is mostly a hype machine? I hear about seemingly earth shattering research there and never hear about it again.
There are millions of discoveries per year because the universe has unbounded complexity and detail. Only a small subset of discoveries would ever impact someone.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#6“ Well, it must minimize the uncertainty of the states that it’s in. I have to actively resist the second law of thermodynamics, so I don’t dissipate into all kinds of states. “ People often make this rhetorical mistake when speaking about the second law. Entropy is increasing full steam ahead, and what looks like a small bit of order is revealed to be hiding ‘the man behind the curtain’ i.e. a massive increase in en…
yes, the 2nd law applies within closed systems. You can cheat in reality (where closed systems don't actually exist) by taking energy from outside a bounded territory (say, a human body) and using it to resist entropy. He doesn't call it by name, but he's referencing autopoiesis (or, continuous self-creation) and homeostasis (self-regulation of properties through balancing feedback loops). Both of these processes consume energy (leading to overall entropy increase), but you can nick that energy from the "environment" through food or photosynthesis or whatever.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#7I think "consciousness" is such a fuzzy term that talking about is at best premature when we are still trying to understand more fundamental things which underlie cognition, such as how human (or mice) memory works, or how the "cognitive maps" which drive spatial navigation generalize to navigation in abstract "concept spaces", how these "concepts" are represented, or how networks of neurons communicate and synchronize for particular tasks, or just figuring out what exactly are those "tasks", the basic computational primitives of adaptation in "lower" animals and insects, let alone humans.
While scientific reductionism has its limitations (e.g. trying to fully describe the complexity of a single neuron in c.elegans is sort of a rabbit hole) you still have to understand at least some of the basic mechanisms, the "LEGO blocks" of cognition, before talking about such higher level of abstraction, especially when it's so ill-defined.
I think Feynman' definition of "cargo cult science" is appropriate here, where we are trying to explain our perception of reality via superficial "neural correlates", or attaching to it these arbitrary "complexity theories", etc., without understanding the fundamental driving factors, mechanics and constraints of perception, the "why" and "how" first.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#8I think "consciousness" is such a fuzzy term that talking about is at best premature when we are still trying to understand more fundamental things which underlie cognition, such as how human (or mice) memory works, or how the "cognitive maps" which drive spatial navigation generalize to navigation in abstract "concept spaces", how these "concepts" are represented, or how networks of neurons communicate and synchroni…
I send "AI" to the spam folder in general. No one who is actually doing AI calls it AI. It's only called AI in glossy consultant brochures with stock images of a man in a business suit surfing through a tunnel of glowing blue numbers.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#9“ Well, it must minimize the uncertainty of the states that it’s in. I have to actively resist the second law of thermodynamics, so I don’t dissipate into all kinds of states. “ People often make this rhetorical mistake when speaking about the second law. Entropy is increasing full steam ahead, and what looks like a small bit of order is revealed to be hiding ‘the man behind the curtain’ i.e. a massive increase in en…
yes, the 2nd law applies within closed systems. You can cheat in reality (where closed systems don't actually exist) by taking energy from outside a bounded territory (say, a human body) and using it to resist entropy. He doesn't call it by name, but he's referencing autopoiesis (or, continuous self-creation) and homeostasis (self-regulation of properties through balancing feedback loops). Both of these processes con…
Which means that ordered systems must create disorder in order to maintain their own order, and the place where you find the greatest order to disorder is in other actively ordered systems. I blame entropy for the existence of evil, if there is a sentient omniscient creator, there better be a good reason for it, and if the reason turns out to be that entropy is the ongoing cost of His omniscient observation of every interaction, The tax of Her constant measurement I shall be both outraged and secretly satisfied that I was right all along.
Re: Anil Seth Finds Consciousness in Life’s Push Against Entropy
#10I think "consciousness" is such a fuzzy term that talking about is at best premature when we are still trying to understand more fundamental things which underlie cognition, such as how human (or mice) memory works, or how the "cognitive maps" which drive spatial navigation generalize to navigation in abstract "concept spaces", how these "concepts" are represented, or how networks of neurons communicate and synchroni…
I agree with this. There are so many philosophical debates out there regarding what happens after we die, if animals are "conscious", if computers or AI could have "consciousness", but in my opinion it's all a big illusion created out of our own egos as a rationalization for our existence.
We are biological machines. Sure, we have an awareness of ourselves, but so do computers in some contexts; for example you could argue a certain types of self-modifying or monitoring code has an awareness of itself. It's already been proven that animals have an awareness of themselves when looking in a mirror, such as Dolphins, Chimpanzees, etc. Humans may be a bit further along in our cognitive development but there is no obvious point where you can say "Humans are conscious" because we're all somewhere on a sliding scale of intelligence and self-awareness.