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California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

latimes.com

141–150 of 208 posts

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do white males feel like they are all unfairly on the board because they passed over all the black candidates? No. They think they're there on merit, because well --- of course, they're white.

Welcome to 2021 when people think openly disparaging people on the basis of their race is ok.

So that's your counter? Nothing against the actual merit of the statement? White people don't naturally assume they have their positions on merit? How many whites actually think, "Maybe I shouldn't have this position because of the advantage I've been given being white"? Seriously. How often do white males seriously ponder this?

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#142
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure whether I agree with the CA policy. But this argument against it is extremely unconvincing. It's almost word-for-word what segregationists argued against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. e.g. https://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2014/06/barry-goldwater-decla... "The two portion so this bill to which I have constantly and consistently voiced objections, and which are of such overriding significance that they are dete…

But this CA law is basically the exact opposite of the 1964 Civil Rights act, which says you can not discriminate based on gender or race in areas like housing and hiring. This law is saying that you must take into account race and gender in your hiring decisions.

I was responding to

> The state shouldn't have a say in who gets a job at a private (non owned by state) company.

that's exactly what the Civil Rights Act does. The state has been telling you how you are allowed to make hiring decisions for a while now.

edit:

And here's Strom Thurmond on the Civil Rights Act:

"This bill would take away the rights of individuals and give to government the power to decide who is to be hired, fired and promoted in private businesses."

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/document/debate-on-the-c...

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#143

The funny thing is that any actually bigoted company has a built in out. "Johnson, as the youngest member, the board has decided that you must identify as a woman for regulatory compliance." What are woke progressives going to do, deny that a man can identify as whatever gender she wants?

[flagged]

That is getting into dangerous territory. How do you prove someone's gender identity?

Do you have to declare that with a legal document? Will there be blind tests to make sure you're conforming to your declared identity?

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#145
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They aren't saying, "you have to hire this person". They're saying you can't hire exclusively this type of person that currently dominates the top of society. No, that's not what Federal anti-discrimination law says. It only says you can't refuse to hire certain people on the basis of a protected characteristic (of which race is one, but not the only one). It says nothing about refusing to hire certain people for o…

> No, that's not what Federal anti-discrimination law says. I wasn't referring to Fed Discrimination Laws. I was referring to the California law. Sorry if that wasn't clear. > The people who are attracted to government jobs where they get to tell other people what to do aren't benevolent helpers; they're people who like power. All history shows that such people are precisely the people you don't want telling other pe…

Honestly there is not right angle to race. Saying "black people cant be at the board of companies" is just as wrong as saying "some black people have to belong to it". That being said, when only white people are at the board of companies without that being a calculated strategy, there is also a problem. If only white people come out on top where - allegedly - the smartest people belong, wouldn’t it be the place of the state to ensure that a fair chance is given to everyone from birth up to professional life, instead of trying to force an artificial standard upon companies?

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#146
post #23

The comments here as I write this are quite shocking. I would have imagined that HN's readership would be quite progressive. Maybe not. I do not think it is unreasonable for a corporate board to be required to include at least one woman or at least one non-white person. I also think it's quite shocking that all-white-male boards are so common that this is even necessary. It's an artifact of institutional racism and s…

If a board rejects a (very) competent person based on the person’s gender, race, sexuality, age, then… they lost a very competent person. That person will do great work outside of that board. Can we agree on this? Also, is that some sort of Nash equilibrium?

You clearly don't understand how boards operate. They're mainly good-ol-boy networks of rich elites who can open doors for the company.

They don't care for competence, pre-se, but connection.

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That is getting into dangerous territory. How do you prove someone's gender identity? Do you have to declare that with a legal document? Will there be blind tests to make sure you're conforming to your declared identity?

Sorry. I thought they were saying they used that gender only for submitting for compliance to this. If they took on being a woman for all legal purposes even if for this loophole then fine.

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to 2021 when people think openly disparaging people on the basis of their race is ok.

So that's your counter? Nothing against the actual merit of the statement? White people don't naturally assume they have their positions on merit? How many whites actually think, "Maybe I shouldn't have this position because of the advantage I've been given being white"? Seriously. How often do white males seriously ponder this?

The merit of your statement disparaging people based on their race? Such statements are without merit.

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#149
I tend to take the view that laws like this are attempts to reduce existing racism and sexism in corporate governance.

For example, and I'll link to an article for all of this at the bottom, Hispanic people are the biggest ethnic group in California, making up 39.4% of the state, but 83% of public companies boards have no Latino or Hispanic board member. Latino and Hispanic Board members make up 2.5% of the population of California board members of public companies, and in the 12 months from June 30 2020 to June 30, 2021, only 3.5% of new directors were Hispanic.

I don't think you get those kind of disparities in this day and age if board members are awarded entirely on merit. I think there are often many qualified candidates for any position, but historical and structural and cultural reasons often push people to hire people like themselves, thus perpetuating inequity.

Maybe you disagree, but at the very least it seems like board rooms don't reflect the state's population very well.

The article talks about people like the Chief Medical Officer at Merck becoming a board member now, and a Black division head at United Talent Agency with 40+ years of experience becoming a board member now. Not exactly people lacking experience and expertise, but not people who were being asked to serve on boards.

If corporations are people, and if a person was only hiring white men for a particular role at a company and not looking to hire equally qualified candidates who happened to be women or minorities, I would consider that the opposite of a meritocracy, and likely indicative of discrimination. And if that was what's happening, I don't think the problem was going to correct itself. If it was, I imagine it would have done so by now, or at least there would have been much greater progress.

Further, studies from Morgan Stanley and others linked in the article suggest that diversity is better for shareholders! If true, then these changes help pave the way for people who have more merit in terms of benefit to the corporation. I don't think diversity is some magic that makes companies run better, I think racism and sexism makes people ignore the value that people could bring in to a company in favor of choosing people more similar to themselves.

Corporations under these two laws have to have someone who is a woman and someone who is part of a minority community, and I believe they can be the same person, so it's not like white male board members are going to disappear just because a board seat or two is required to be more diverse.

A white male board member is almost certainly wealthy, so nobody is going hungry even if they lose a board seat, and boards can, I believe, just add additional seats, so nobody actually has to lose their position.

Ultimately it seems like this may make companies perform better, and promote racial and gender equity, and it doesn't cost taxpayers anything to make it a condition of a California corporate charter.

So what exactly is the real harm, when compared to the benefits?

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/califo...

Re: California outlawed all-white-male boardrooms – reshaping corporate America

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, that's not what Federal anti-discrimination law says. I wasn't referring to Fed Discrimination Laws. I was referring to the California law. Sorry if that wasn't clear. > The people who are attracted to government jobs where they get to tell other people what to do aren't benevolent helpers; they're people who like power. All history shows that such people are precisely the people you don't want telling other pe…

Honestly there is not right angle to race. Saying "black people cant be at the board of companies" is just as wrong as saying "some black people have to belong to it". That being said, when only white people are at the board of companies without that being a calculated strategy, there is also a problem. If only white people come out on top where - allegedly - the smartest people belong, wouldn’t it be the place of th…

> is just as wrong as saying "some black people have to belong to it".

Umm you can have an all white board with the new law.

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