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Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

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Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#21
post #3

Why is this news? Is anyone even remotely surprised by this? The rules exist to be skirted by those who have the power to shape them.

> Why is this news? Is anyone even remotely surprised by this?

> The rules exist to be skirted by those who have the power to shape them.

I know places I've worked before have seen features in competitor products and scurried to implement new features to reflect them. I work on some open source that takes its lead from closed source alternatives. Is this considered skirting the rules? Genuine question, I don't actually know anything about anything.

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#22

Can someone explain to me why Facebook Messenger sucks so bad? The search function barely works, lags most of the time and scrolling up on conversations takes forever. Discord is orders of magnitude better in those aspects.

Do you expect reliability from a company who's motto is "move fast and break things"?

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#23
post #7

Honest question: Is this against the rules? If there's a market a company wants to enter, wouldn't they just analyze the cost to build (both product, and market/audience), vs. acquiring (both product, and market/audience), then pick the cheapest option?

US rules against monopolies generally hold that the monopolist cannot clone competitors offerings. Facebook is not yet a convicted monopolist

There’s no such rule. Even running a monopoly itself is not illegal, it’s only illegal if you leverage your monopolistic position to prevent competition such as temporarily cutting prices below cost to starve competition.

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#24
post #9

6 man week for a "message read" animation. What the hell? Am I reading that right ?

Zuck's gotta talk to the product owner who schedules it as a priority item in the backlog for the next sprint; the architects and the UX people will draw up some sketches but this is all the way from the top so there's no time to waste, so the developers start at the same time. Schedule four daily status meetings to make sure everything progresses as fast as possible! Of course the developers don't have the requirements yet so they need redo everything the next sprint. Then a sprint for QA and that's about 1200 man-hours of work in a large organisation.

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#25
post #4

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery Don't most companies have these types of conversations? I haven't been at one yet that hasn't. Good startups look at their competitors and decide to clone some, and change other, features. Were we not excited here yesterday on HN, that Cloudflare is cloning and undercutting AWS S3?

An adult stealing candy from a baby is illegal.

A baby stealing candy from an adult, well I'd like to meet that baby.

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#26
post #9

6 man week for a "message read" animation. What the hell? Am I reading that right ?

It looked like for a general purpose animation library for Android, rather than using the native capabilities

It was one hell of a well-engineered rabbit-hole though :)

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#27
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US rules against monopolies generally hold that the monopolist cannot clone competitors offerings. Facebook is not yet a convicted monopolist

There’s no such rule. Even running a monopoly itself is not illegal, it’s only illegal if you leverage your monopolistic position to prevent competition such as temporarily cutting prices below cost to starve competition.

Yeah it is not like 'you are the only(/de facto) choice now, so now you are illegal!'; you also need to abuse this position to get this kind of attention.

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#28
post #4

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery Don't most companies have these types of conversations? I haven't been at one yet that hasn't. Good startups look at their competitors and decide to clone some, and change other, features. Were we not excited here yesterday on HN, that Cloudflare is cloning and undercutting AWS S3?

> Were we not excited here yesterday on HN, that Cloudflare is cloning and undercutting AWS S3?

I think there's a bit of a difference there.

1) There's an important difference between winner-take-all (or most) markets with very strong network effects and other markets. If most people use S3 and I use R2, it doesn't really damage my experience using R2.

Let's say that Facebook was cloning features, but all platforms could interact with standard, open APIs (like the S3 API basically is). Then we wouldn't care about Facebook copying. In a Fediverse-like world, we don't care about someone cloning the features of a competitor because their cloning doesn't stifle competition.

2) I think there's a difference between a new company challenging the 10,000lb gorilla and the 10,000lb gorilla crushing a new company. Cloudflare isn't tiny, but they're definitely tiny compared to AWS. When Facebook talks about cloning the features of a tiny competitor, it comes off as the giant trillion-dollar company trying to crush any tiny competitor that might serve customers better.

With Cloudflare's R2, we see a smaller company cloning something which adds competition and puts pressure on the larger competitors to treat their customers better. Maybe AWS won't respond, but at least we can use R2 when we want to. Maybe AWS will respond with free bandwidth. Even better!

When Facebook does this, it feels very different - especially given the antipathy that many people feel toward Facebook and its policies/behaviors. Let's say that NewSocial comes up with something that seems to be resonating with customers. They only have a million users right now, but people like the feature(s) and they like that NewSocial doesn't seem to have the baggage/policies/behaviors that people don't like about Facebook. Consumers might be getting a better option that treats them better...and Facebook wants to clone the features to blunt their growth and prevent that new option from getting the critical mass to be sustainable so it dies out.

Note: I'm not passing judgement on Facebook's policies/behaviors. I am simply noting that there does seem to be some antipathy in the public toward Facebook.

I don't think that people are against cloning features. I think that people are against large companies cloning features in an attempt to stifle competition and prevent consumer choice. When Cloudflare clones S3, it benefits us as consumers and as internet users. We see that R2 could allow new startups to offer cool things to us that might not be affordable given Amazon's bandwidth pricing. When we look at Facebook cloning features from tiny startups, we see our world being locked into the Facebook ecosystem while the company tries to destroy any competition that might offer us something better.

Re: Internal emails show Zuckerberg and Facebook execs discuss cloning competitors

#30
post #7

Honest question: Is this against the rules? If there's a market a company wants to enter, wouldn't they just analyze the cost to build (both product, and market/audience), vs. acquiring (both product, and market/audience), then pick the cheapest option?

US rules against monopolies generally hold that the monopolist cannot clone competitors offerings. Facebook is not yet a convicted monopolist

Most antitrust rules are in place to protect the consumer, not the competitor. You might be thinking of patents with the USPTO.
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