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Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

merck.com

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Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#31

Post by kwhitefoot »

_3u10 wrote: post #12
mmastrac wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it halves hospitalizations, it'll have a pretty drastic effect on overwhelmed ICUs but there's probably still a ways to go before ICU levels return to normal and we can skip mandates.

Norway, Sweden, and the UK no longer have mandates, it's a political question not a medical question.

> it's a political question not a medical question.

Not as much here in Norway as it is in the UK. Our death rate per unit population is one tenth of the UK and local authorities remain prepared to reinstate restrictions. Here we have been living pretty much normally for months already anyway.

And while the government has occasionally overreacted both the government and population have mostly followed the Norwegian Public Health Institute (FHI) advice.

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#32

Post by LurkingPenguin »

loeg wrote: post #23
mrfusion wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re worried about hospital capacity why are we firing healthcare workers?

We have vaccine mandates because infected healthcare workers spreading COVID reduce capacity even more. We haven't actually fired many workers, because the vast majority just get the vaccine (mostly before the mandates).

1. You need to account for the fact that some percentage (perhaps large) of healthcare workers already survived COVID and have natural immunity. Since the science is demonstrating that natural immunity is as durable and robust as vaccine immunity (if not more durable and robust), one would have to ask what the rationale is for firing workers who have natural immunity (as verified by a past COVID diagnosis or presence of antibodies) and do not want to be vaccinated.

2. The science is clear that vaccinated individuals can contract and spread the virus. While this doesn't mean that the vaccines aren't useful (they absolutely are), we need to be realistic about this in high-risk settings.

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#33

Post by howlong »

loeg wrote: post #23
mrfusion wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we’re worried about hospital capacity why are we firing healthcare workers?

We have vaccine mandates because infected healthcare workers spreading COVID reduce capacity even more. We haven't actually fired many workers, because the vast majority just get the vaccine (mostly before the mandates).

Why do we have vaccine mandates for people working from home?

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#35

Post by gfodor »

loeg wrote: post #29
_3u10 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies indicate ivermectin works given before hospitalization, doesn't work during hospitalization.

No. Studies on ivermectin are mixed, and it seems like the ones that showed positive effects had falsified data[1]. Additionally, this trial does not demonstrate that Molnupiravir is ineffective after hospitalization. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-s...

They should just brand this drug as the "New Ivermectin", kill two birds with one stone and save countless lives. Comeon marketing people, I believe in you!

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#36

Post by crooked-v »

gfodor wrote: post #25

This is phenomenal news - I'm also curious how the various tribalist memes evolve. Will the vaccine maximalists who ridiculed "horse paste" when the data was still weak in part because a pill-based regime would undermine the message that vaccines ought to be mandatory embrace this much needed second tier therapeutic? Will the anti-vaxxers who will inevitably see this as the goal of a big pharma conspiracy covering up…

The vaccine maximalists ridicule "horse paste" because many people are literally buying and ingesting products intended for livestock.

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#37

Post by carbocation »

I think it's disappointing that this thread has devolved into a political discussion that is hardly related to the topic. The scientific/medical achievement here seems significant.

As an MD, the difference between calling in a script for a pill and arranging for outpatient infusion therapies is vast.

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#38

Post by rediguanayum »

mrfusion wrote: post #15
mmastrac wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it halves hospitalizations, it'll have a pretty drastic effect on overwhelmed ICUs but there's probably still a ways to go before ICU levels return to normal and we can skip mandates.

If we’re worried about hospital capacity why are we firing healthcare workers?

The immediate parent comment is correct. Because Covid precluded elective surgery which is a major money maker for hospitals, the bottom line was hit. Consequently many hospitals cut back, and lot go physicians, PAs, nurses, techs, etc. When you hear hospitals are full, it very often isn't because of lack equipment or beds, but rather insufficient staff, especially nurses due to legal regulations around staffing ratios. (Source wife is a healthcare worker on the frontlines)

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#39

Post by smnrchrds »

mmastrac wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #6

Will this affect mandate requirements, if as effective as it’s claimed? If so we don't need to reach hard to achieve 95% vaccination rates and we can get closer to a normal life.

If it halves hospitalizations, it'll have a pretty drastic effect on overwhelmed ICUs but there's probably still a ways to go before ICU levels return to normal and we can skip mandates.

Alberta has 173 normal ICU beds. As of this Monday, there were 312 Albertans in ICUs, 265 of whom for COVID [1]. The extra 139 beds were surge capacity, created by shutting down other services, postponing surgeries, and diverting resources to COVID ICU treatments.

Even if the number of COVID patients in ICUs halved, we would have 132 people in the ICU with COVID, or 179 patients in total for all causes. It would still be over capacity and need surge beds, but it would still be much better than the current state. What this tells me is that whether we can skip mandates depends a lot on healthcare capacity in your region. Maybe the US with its higher population-adjusted ICU beds can get back to normal sooner than Canada.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-health-care-...

Re: Antiviral Molnupiravir Reduces Risk of Hospitalization/Death by ~50 Percent

#40

Post by logicalmonster »

mmastrac wrote: post #7
mc32 wrote: post #6

Will this affect mandate requirements, if as effective as it’s claimed? If so we don't need to reach hard to achieve 95% vaccination rates and we can get closer to a normal life.

If it halves hospitalizations, it'll have a pretty drastic effect on overwhelmed ICUs but there's probably still a ways to go before ICU levels return to normal and we can skip mandates.

What are normal ICU levels and is this a goalpost that can ever be achieved?

Long before Covid, it was well-known that hospital ICUs were designed to run fairly close to 100% capacity because it wasn't profitable to pay for staff that weren't truly needed at any given time. Is there any hospital that is going to pay for far more staff than they need and somehow manufacture many ICU beds out of nowhere? I feel like this is a goalpost intentionally designed to never be achievable.

As further evidence, if the situation was actually so dire, would unvaccinated people (many of whom already had Covid) be on the chopping block in so many locations?

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