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NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

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Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#581

Post by javier123454321 »

tantalor wrote: post #541
javier123454321 wrote: post #531

The way I see NFTs is this: It is an open API to deal with ownership rights. Every behavior that you can program into ownership, is now available. The profile pictures are stupid, yes, but the idea that property is moved to an open database which anyone can program a behavior is exciting. Aston martin can now have a lounge in France where only Aston Martin owners can join, even if your car is in New York. Even if the…

> only Aston Martin owners can join How would that even work? Supposing I bought the car and received the token, what's to stop me from selling the token and keeping the car?

Programmable property means you can program it to do anything. Multi factor authentication, is one way to do it.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#582

Post by chrisco255 »

ashtonkem wrote: post #490
chrisco255 wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you know that the person creating a NFT has the right to do that? The NFT tracks the chain of ownership for the NFT itself, if the initial person creating the NFT did not own the copyright for the art in question, then the NFT itself is useless. That's very simple. Taylor Swift registers an on-chain address via ENS. TaylorSwift.eth, let's say. Then she publicly posts that public key to the world on social me…

Your scheme of public keys on websites only works for the Taylor Swifts of the world once they’ve become Taylor Swift. It depends heavily on the social capital of websites verifying identity, a system that is pretty useless for new artists. This is roughly as practical as pgp key parties were: not practical at all. What are you going to do, go manually check the signing key on every artists website before doing some…

Nonsense. Crypto has reputation systems just like everywhere else. I just shipped a successful NFT art project this week with a team. We already made our first 1.5ETH royalty payment from OpenSea in the first 24 hours (although they only pay out once a month, we managed to launch just a day before the cut off). It works absolutely fine.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#583

Post by rhn_mk1 »

int_19h wrote: post #555
Traster wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh do I have a scam for you! So, no, obviously you can't divide an NFT, but what you can do is create a new fungible token (or smart contract not sure about the exact details) that represents partial ownership of the NFT. So you can issue 1000 of these fungible tokens that represent partial ownership of the NFT.

The whole thing feels like some kind of postmodernist performance art about property and ownership. Actually, come to think of it, maybe that's a great idea. If people ask questions about NFTs, they might start asking more questions about intellectual property as well, and ultimately about property rights in general. In a sense, NFT is the ultimate absentee property - it's impossible to use or occupy. It's a title to…

I'm slightly afraid of the asking because of what answers parties might arrive to.

Someone pushing for intellectual property maximalism might see in NFTs a technical counterpart to the legal monopoly on the ownership of digital information. Why not encode the ownership of a copy of the newest game as a NFT, and then have the console check at startup? And similarlines of thought that I don't have the imagination to consider.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#584

Post by dehrmann »

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #568
dehrmann wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The line separating investment and speculation, which is never bright and clear, becomes blurred still further when most market participants have recently enjoyed triumphs. Nothing sedates rationality like large doses of effortless money. After a heady experience of that kind, normally sensible people drift into behavior akin to that of Cinderella at the ball. They know that overstaying the festivities — that is, c…

Cryptocurrency has been through -80% draw downs multiple times in it's history. The question is, is the entire history a story of a pump and dump or are you saying we are currently in a smaller bubble & bitcoin should be ~5k instead of ~40k? Why has it been able to withstand a draw down of 50% 4 times in 13 years?

I was referring more to NFTs than cryptocurrencies. They went from nothing to huge too quickly. NTFs are closer to Beanie Babies, Bitcoin to baseball cards. The big gotcha with NTFs, and why they're worse than Beanies, is they're incredibly hard to price because they're non-fungible, and unlike art (also non-fungible), it's not clear which tokens are desirable or why.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#586

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st »

0xdada wrote: post #436
X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh I have spent ~100 on smaller stuff on hicetnunc. The majority has been on art made by people that I know, and I've really enjoyed the new artists that I've found. I'm uninterested in the NFTs with big price tags, and I'm uninterested in pieces that I don't subjectively enjoy the art of. I care, but I'm guessing you either didn't literally mean nobody cares, or you are going to brush off this counter example for wh…

I'm an amateur generative artist who just started minting on hic et nunc a month ago. I'm extremely sceptical and even disgusted by the big money NFTs, but minting and collecting on H=N has been a lot of fun, there is a very nice community as well. Selling my art for ~real money for the first time has been such a motivating experience, even knowing that we are in a strong mania phase now. So I can say that I care too…

Oh some of your stuff is quite nice! If there were still maze pieces for ~3 tez I'd pick one up.

I've really been enjoying the community around hic et nunc. Hopefully if the site collapses the community will mostly stay around, it's been such a breath of fresh air compared to most of the NFT activity on ETH.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#587

Post by TeMPOraL »

MR4D wrote: post #489
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #446

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

My favorite description, heard just this week: “Here’s a receipt for the Mona Lisa that says that you own this receipt of the Mona Lisa”.

"...which says you believe you own this receipt, and at the time of purchase, you believed that the issuer of this receipt believes in your ownership of it too".

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#588

Post by meowface »

seanhunter wrote: post #473
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #446

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

Non-fungible doesn't mean something can't be divided, it means a specific one just can't be substituted for another one. An example: If I trade oil, one barrel of oil with a certain spec[1] is fungible with another barrel of oil with the same spec. If I sell you some oil you don't care which specific barrel you get as long as it's the same kind of thing. Likewise if you borrow 10 dollars from me you can pay me back w…

This answer confused me at first, because I initially thought you were trying to say non-fungible assets can be divided. At least in the case of non-fungible Ethereum tokens, it's the case that they both each can't be substituted for another one and they can't be divided, right?

And in the case of ERC-1155 semi-fungible tokens (SFTs), you can substitute them for others of the same type but they still each can't be divided. They're whole, irreducible units.

For both NFTs and SFTs, I think the non-divisibility is an important component to understanding what they are. There's no "smaller denomination" of each asset in the way that Ethereum can be divided arbitrarily until you reach the minimum "wei" unit.

You're right that non-divisibility isn't a sufficient condition to be non-fungible (as with SFTs), but the way I interpreted your first sentence made it seem like it was an orthogonal condition rather than a necessary and central one. (At least for cryptocurrency assets.)

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#589

Post by TeMPOraL »

jameshart wrote: post #481
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #446

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

So I do wonder whether the NFT divide (between people who get it and people who don’t) might be a generational split, related to a larger societal shift away from ‘owning things’. We’ve definitely passed ‘peak thing ownership’. For those of us old enough to have grown up with the idea of ‘buying a book’, ‘buying a toy’, ‘buying a CD’ or ‘buying a magazine’ we have a particular mental framework for ‘owning’ stuff. But…

Maybe. Or maybe it's that people less used to the concept of ownership can be more easily defrauded by "as a Service" businesses and people peddling crypto alike.

> consider some of the things you likely have bought recently: a ‘twelve month Netflix subscription’, a ‘Steam library game’, an ‘app’… you bought those things with no expectation you could resell them later because you don’t think of those as ‘things’

Yes and no. The subscription is very much "a thing". Think of this like a mental jump you've made when you understood functions as first-class values - code that your program can grab and pass around. I may not be able to sell the underlying media library to which I'm granted access, but I can very much sell the access itself. Or borrow it to a friend. Or charge money for it. People are[0], in fact, trading access to subscription services like Netflix.

> if you grew up digital native and the only things you’ve ever been able to buy are non transferable digital pointers to rights to use something, maybe the idea of a transferable digital rights pointer seems like a crazy innovative new idea that changes everything?

That's... a couple decades of dystopia ahead of us. People growing today are still buying food, toys, medicine. Children develop understanding of ownership before they develop understanding of money.

--

[0] - Or were, last time I checked, which was some 2-3 years ago.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#590

Post by panabee »

chrisco255 wrote: post #582
ashtonkem wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scheme of public keys on websites only works for the Taylor Swifts of the world once they’ve become Taylor Swift. It depends heavily on the social capital of websites verifying identity, a system that is pretty useless for new artists. This is roughly as practical as pgp key parties were: not practical at all. What are you going to do, go manually check the signing key on every artists website before doing some…

Nonsense. Crypto has reputation systems just like everywhere else. I just shipped a successful NFT art project this week with a team. We already made our first 1.5ETH royalty payment from OpenSea in the first 24 hours (although they only pay out once a month, we managed to launch just a day before the cut off). It works absolutely fine.

what did you use to create the art project, if you don’t mind sharing?

re the criticism above, why couldn’t opensea or NFT marketplaces perform verification for you and display twitter-like checkmarks for art sold by owner?

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