Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 233 posts

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#71

Post by strken »

_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

It's the inverse of a casino, because economies grow instead of shrink. If you bought shares at random, you'd make money on average, like a casino where the house loses more often than it wins.

Rich people and politicians are absolutely skimming off the top in various legal and illegal ways, but they skim off less than economic growth adds.

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#72

Post by rapsey »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #69
_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

How is it a scam? You buy stock. You own a share in a company, or in a company that owns more companies. The company makes money. It pays that out by dividends or share buybacks. You sell it decades later, hopefully for a profit. That's the deal. That's what's for sale. You want to blame HFTs or whatever? Bah. Worst case you're losing a fraction of a percent of your initial purchase. You've got absolutely nothing on…

>How is it a scam? You buy stock. You own a share in a company, or in a company that owns more companies.

Because the stock you buy may not have been actually bought by your broker. Which is the entire point of the GME saga which you completely misunderstand. A stock has no business being shorted over 100% in a market that is not a scam.

Major firms can get away with crimes like naked shorting and no one can do anything about it except the regulators and they turn a blind eye or impose hilariously low fines.

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#73

Post by f0e4c2f7 »

_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

> buy real things that appreciate over time

Companies are real things that appreciate over time. Stock is ownership of that. I wouldn't characterize it as a scam exactly. I do think people underestimate how clever markets are and would advise against trying to outsmart them.

There is a different kind of bet you can make which is to buy a small part of the entire US economy on the assumption that it will continue to grow during your lifetime. Thats what an index fund is. It's a boring bet with modest returns.

A lot has been written about index funds. This video is probably the most clear resource I can think of that has all the information in one place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71ibcZAX3I

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#74

Post by cudgy »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #69
_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

How is it a scam? You buy stock. You own a share in a company, or in a company that owns more companies. The company makes money. It pays that out by dividends or share buybacks. You sell it decades later, hopefully for a profit. That's the deal. That's what's for sale. You want to blame HFTs or whatever? Bah. Worst case you're losing a fraction of a percent of your initial purchase. You've got absolutely nothing on…

Sounds like you agree, except you don’t use the word “scam”.

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#75

Post by good8675309 »

smhost wrote: post #7

militarize the IRS

You mean militarize it against people you don't like but what about when it's turned back on you. Once an agency is weaponized and it neutralizes all foes, you can't just turn the machine off, you have to keep feeding it until it turns on you. Btw, it's already been militarized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRS_targeting_controversy

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#76

Post by sitzkrieg »

SkipperCat wrote: post #53
_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

Not trying to be a hater, but if you follow most investing advice, you can do really well in the stock market. Don't try to pick stocks, just buy low load index funds (SPY, Russel2000) and hold onto them. Doing that, you can get above 6% yields over the course of a few decades. This has worked really well for so many people. Its boring, there's nothing sexy about it but you will retire with a decent chunk of cheddar.…

a large part of the problem seems to be people who should be investing wanting to trade so that they can say they're a trader and platforms like robinhood make it easier to actively trade

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#77

Post by MerelyMortal »

mental1896 wrote: post #68
agumonkey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can HNers gather for a poll ? A lot of people (including me) spent a lot of time reading, operating, spending time on investing. There are a few bits of value here, and some profits to make. But it seems to me that learning, crafting, sharing is way more beneficial long term. Even if you win, you're never shielded from inflation, being conned buying a car, a house... In a way wisdom and relationships appear more impo…

>you're never shielded from inflation It seems to me that inflation is integral to success of the system. That is to say, without inflation, far fewer people would "win".

> without inflation, far fewer people would "win".

Wouldn't it also be: without inflation, the people not playing wouldn't "lose"?

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#78

Post by pif »

_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

Casinos are not a scam: they are in the entertainment industry.

Casinos are just the only place where gullible people go to entertain themselves and expect to get paid for that.

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#79

Post by dragonwriter »

pif wrote: post #78
_wldu wrote: post #42

I've been down-voted for years for saying this, but I am right. The stock market is a scam. Just like casinos in Las Vegas. The house wins more often than we do. 'You need to diversify' simply means 'Give us more of your money'. Don't fall for it. It's just rich people and politicians taking money from less rich people. If you want to double your money, fold it over and put it in your pocket (and buy real things that…

Casinos are not a scam: they are in the entertainment industry. Casinos are just the only place where gullible people go to entertain themselves and expect to get paid for that.

> Casinos are not a scam: they are in the entertainment industry.

The suggestion that scams and the entertainment industry are nonoverlapping sets is...interesting, but untrue.

But casinos are very optimized to develop and milk addicts; they are very much in the addiction industry, like tobacco and heroine dealers.

Re: Redditors are right about the unfairness of the market

#80

Post by Atlas667 »

Jolly, what a surprise... This article is just paying lip service to everyone who already feels this is the case (most sane people) and redditors. Just for gathering some traffic.

The real truth is in understanding that this is fundamentally unstoppable within our economic mode of production. No ammount of regulation or de-regulation will prevent a system based on individual profit accumulation from becoming corrupt. You can stop individuals, but the economic incentive will still be there, waiting. Profit means leverage and economic freedom means using that leverage. It's a feature not a bug.

Its all corruption and exploitation masquerading as economic freedom and individual freedom, always has been. Liberalism and Convervativism are just the cultural views that carry the ideological justifications for their exploitation (be them progressive, regressive, static or mixed).

Really, if we were in their position we'd be doing the same. Which leads into why it is important to fundamentally transform our society.

Post reply on HN