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NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

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Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#451

Post by nonameiguess »

jcelerier wrote: post #255
Doxin wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both correct and underestimating how broken NFTs are. If you buy an NFT that gives you nothing except bragging rights that you "own" this NFT. What ownership actually means when devoid of the associated rights is anyones guess. Buying an NFT of a GIF doesn't stop anyone from using that GIF on reddit. No one is going around checking if posted GIFs have a matching NFT out there and enforcing property rights base…

Not that I support NFTs much, but conceptually, how is that different than you buying a Marilyn Monroe from Andy Warhol and him printing the exact same Marilyn Monroe and selling it to someone else ? Hopefully in 2021 everyone would agree that the two are distinct artworks, even if the physical object is exactly the same to the human eye ; that's not what matters when buying art.

This is exactly why very little art is valuable until the artist is dead, and even those rare artists who can sell while still alive see the value of their work skyrocket when they die. Andy Warhol definitely can't make a copy of anything you own that he created and he has verifiably been unable to since 1987.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#452

Post by hanklazard »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #446

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

> I mean, opensea.io does allow you to mint (the term for magically turning a media into an official NFT backed by the blockchain) up to 100MB of content. So where is it? Not in the blockchain, obviously, it's already fat enough with tiny transaction data. Well, it's just stored in the centralized platforms like opensea, rarible, etc.

You’re right that this is the way many have been created so far, but that will not be the case for long. Already people have pointed NFTs to IPFS/Filecoin which will give them much more staying power. And this can be done without using a centralized platform like opensea, check out nft.storage and metaplex (1) as starting points.

1. https://github.com/metaplex-foundation/metaplex

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#453

Post by coopierez »

neuralzen wrote: post #267
larsiusprime wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will, sincerely, believe it when I see it. Until then criticizing the status quo, which is doing harm right now, is absolutely valid and not disingenuous in the least.

I suppose I see is like noticing that a house is being built, and then criticizing it because no one can live in it, and the builder's tools are loud, and pieces of building material are strewn around. If you don't like houses at all, then it's certainly fair to be critical of them at any state of their development, but if you admit they are useful to exist, albeit in a more developed state than not, it seems like a…

But in the case of the house, I've seen many completed houses before, so it's a bit of a false equivalence.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#454

Post by iamevn »

ikt wrote: post #362
ido wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If not for the energy costs NFTs would be just like you describe above - a somewhat pointless but harmless hobby for enthusiasts (what good does speculating on baseball cards do in the world? What good does speculating on art do for that matter? As far as I can tell "little to none" for both of these). Unfortunately that's not the case.

> If not for the energy costs Feel free to quote this and laugh at me but by this time next year I doubt this will be a topic The latest updates for anyone interested: https://blog.ethereum.org/2021/09/28/finalized-no-29/

this has been "a few months away" or "later this year" for at least two years now

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#455

Post by BukhariH »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #446

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

Not quite right.

The assets aren’t necessarily stored on OpenSea. You can see how OpenSea gets the metadata like asset url via the docs:

https://docs.opensea.io/docs/metadata-standards

If you scroll down you’ll see that the assets can be hosted on decentralised networks too like IPFS.

Also, not all NFT projects are built the same. I suggest you check out Pak’s Poets project - it’s a very exciting piece of performance art built around game theory.

Disclaimer: I don’t own any NFTs but that doesn’t mean I’m not excited by what they’re doing.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#456

Post by tnzm »

Buttons840 wrote: post #180
taylorfinley wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the sort of shallow understanding I mean to point at. NFTs are so much more than "owning jpegs." This is the same mistake as saying "owning bitcoin is just owning a cell in a spreadsheet." Can I have the title to your car? After all, it's just a piece of paper. NFTs are access tokens to social communities, where owning a particular token grants you access to a community that shares ownership. Collab.L…

If I have a NFT concert ticket, how do I get into the concert? What do the people at the gates do to determine that I may enter? Do I print a piece of paper? Do I show them a picture on my phone or something? Can't the previous owners of the NFT show the same picture? Can't anyone show the same picture on their own phone?

Two QR codes: one of the ticket's public key, and one of your public key. Their infrastructure verifies that you're the current owner and you're in.

Or just have your phone broadcast the public keys via radio to a turnstile.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#457

Post by cle »

imtringued wrote: post #398
eoo wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An NFT is a virtual title of ownership on a blockchain, that's it. You don't own neither a string or an image or a JSON. https://eips.ethereum.org/EIPS/eip-721

It's actually simpler than that. It's just an entry in a database with your name attached to it. It's like an autograph. Why do database entries have value? Well, usually because there are processes attached to them. Often it is as simple as having a court enforce the process. I don't know why but the whole cryptocurrency space feels like a philosophical parody of the real world. Money without people. Contracts witho…

They have value because people agree they have value. Trusted third parties (like courts) help people come to that agreement, by providing transparent, objective processes to settle legitimacy and ownership disputes (in the happy case, in the not-happy case they use physical force to reach agreement).

Personally I don't understand the controversy, blockchains are a different kind of trusted third party that also help people come to agreements, by also providing "transparent, objective processes to settle legitimacy and ownership disputes". These third parties aren't mutually exclusive, and the role of blockchains/NFTs aren't fundamentally different, they just use novel means to help people come to agreements, within the same social constructs we've always had.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#458

Post by miracle2k »

user-the-name wrote: post #403
miracle2k wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I understand correctly, an NFT is like if someone, not necessarily Warhol himself. No, the point is that the NFT is from the artist themselves.

It is not. Nothing about an NFT ensures it is from the artist, and not just from someone random scammer.

Correct. This is your job to ensure.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#459

Post by BiteCode_dev »

BukhariH wrote: post #455
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #446

NFT always felt ridiculous to me, but I though I understood the mechanism: "it's like baseball cards but in the blockchain". This week I learned it's not. NFT are Non Fungible Tokens, which means tokens that can't be divided, unlike crypto currencies like Bitcoin that can be divided in Satoshis. So you exchange the totality of it, or not. Basically it's a unique number in the blockchain you change ownership by applyi…

Not quite right. The assets aren’t necessarily stored on OpenSea. You can see how OpenSea gets the metadata like asset url via the docs: https://docs.opensea.io/docs/metadata-standards If you scroll down you’ll see that the assets can be hosted on decentralised networks too like IPFS. Also, not all NFT projects are built the same. I suggest you check out Pak’s Poets project - it’s a very exciting piece of performance…

I agree, you can store it on IPFS. But most people don't, they don't even know it's possible.

I mean, most people could host their own video, but they upload on youtube, and just youtube.

Well, this is the same, only even more niche, so the easy "upload" on open sea is very, very attractive.

I'd wager if one the most popular NFT trading plateform disapear, 99% of all NFT would go poof.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#460

Post by gitfan86 »

Jyaif wrote: post #432
Doxin wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand bragging rights, but it's pretty hard to brag with something noncorporeal. That profile pic? Anyone can use that, whether or not they own the NFT or not. Makes for some pretty poor bragging material if you ask me.

> That profile pic? Anyone can use that, whether or not they own the NFT or not. Currently yes, but that's a fixable problem. For instance Twitter could start preventing users from having profile pics that look similar to NFTs that were minted earlier.

Except copyright and trademark laws exist. The Washington Redskins lost their trademark. You can create as many NFTs of their logo as you want. But you cannot stop me from putting that logo on my website.
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