NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites • Hacker News Board

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#201

Post by root_axis » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:41 AM UTC

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #193

root_axis wrote: post #170

All of this gushing hype for the future of artistry is transparently performative. Nobody in this tech cares about art or artists, any of the useful functions of NFTs have long been possible and many orders of magnitude less expensive using public key cryptography or digital signatures.

Eh I have spent ~100 on smaller stuff on hicetnunc. The majority has been on art made by people that I know, and I've really enjoyed the new artists that I've found. I'm uninterested in the NFTs with big price tags, and I'm uninterested in pieces that I don't subjectively enjoy the art of. I care, but I'm guessing you either didn't literally mean nobody cares, or you are going to brush off this counter example for wh…

What's to stop someone from finding a random artist on instagram that produces amazing work and selling it as their own on a website like that?

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#202

Post by neuralzen » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:42 AM UTC

larsiusprime wrote: post #191

neuralzen wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"my other complaint is that you’re just creating a speculative instrument that doesn’t really do anything except hope someone else will pay more for it." So like bitcoin? - The value is in what someone believes it is worth to be provably in control of a given asset. It also provides a great deal of social currency...certain NFT owners have identity wrapped up in them such that owning it extends social latitudes, as t…

Yes I think Bitcoin is bad as well. Speculation is not productive, and this particular form of it has negative externalities - costs the rest of society is forced to pay, which is both bad and unfair. Proof of work is far too expensive and wasteful, and the necessary private key discipline to not lose all your coins puts it out of reach of normies (immutability is a bug not a feature for normies), and it’s deflationa…

I agree PoW is bad, and I'm hopeful for the future of Proof of Stake. Just like using coal and oil to fuel our industries is bad, and we are moving more and more towards renewable energy it is a path of progression. You have to start somewhere and grow, but I think it is somewhat disingenuous to discuss them as if they are static states which are not seeking and progressing to more ethical models.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#203

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:42 AM UTC

larsiusprime wrote: post #194

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy this project that got a lot of excitement behind it. https://www.lootproject.com/

I don’t see why we need blockchain for this project at all.

There's only a couple reasons why you'd ever "need" a blockchain, the oldest is trustless artificial scarcity. That's why.

Otherwise it's literally just a text file

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#204

Post by tapas73 » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:43 AM UTC

stickfigure wrote: post #2

> The venn diagram of NFT haters are almost exact matches of Crypto haters Nonsense. I'm pro-crypto but think NFTs are absolutely idiotic. Scarcity is fundamental to any store of value. There are an infinite number of potential NFTs.

wow. only after reading 10s of comments did I understood that crypto-hater and pro crypto refer not to cryptography but to blockchain and friends.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#205

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:44 AM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #201

X6S1x6Okd1st wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh I have spent ~100 on smaller stuff on hicetnunc. The majority has been on art made by people that I know, and I've really enjoyed the new artists that I've found. I'm uninterested in the NFTs with big price tags, and I'm uninterested in pieces that I don't subjectively enjoy the art of. I care, but I'm guessing you either didn't literally mean nobody cares, or you are going to brush off this counter example for wh…

What's to stop someone from finding a random artist on instagram that produces amazing work and selling it as their own on a website like that?

If the community cares they'll try and find out people that do that and blacklist them. hicetnunc does that, it's the only one I could speak to.

That's generally referred to as copy-minting.

EDIT: here's the hicetnunc community write up for basic steps to minimize the change you buy a copy-mint: https://github.com/hicetnunc2000/hicetnunc/wiki/Beware-copym...!

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#206

Post by dmarcos » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #180

taylorfinley wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the sort of shallow understanding I mean to point at. NFTs are so much more than "owning jpegs." This is the same mistake as saying "owning bitcoin is just owning a cell in a spreadsheet." Can I have the title to your car? After all, it's just a piece of paper. NFTs are access tokens to social communities, where owning a particular token grants you access to a community that shares ownership. Collab.L…

If I have a NFT concert ticket, how do I get into the concert? What do the people at the gates do to determine that I may enter? Do I print a piece of paper? Do I show them a picture on my phone or something? Can't the previous owners of the NFT show the same picture? Can't anyone show the same picture on their own phone?

No infrastructure in venues integrating NFTs but it’s no different than a traditional ticket.

Your NFT could have an associated QR code read at the door. In case of conflict there’s only one owner with access to the associated wallet and will be able to proof ownership via app / website…

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#207

Post by loudandskittish » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

hzambo wrote: post #86

Most of the comments assume that with NFTs you are buying just a piece of digital image with no utility whatsoever. And yes, it is the case with most of the things we see on https://opensea.io/ . But on the other hand, there are a bunch of interesting projects out there where you can do some cool things with your NFTs, like the "card game" Axie Infinity and other ripoff projects - with a very few original ones - insp…

But online collectible card games have existed for well over a decade without any need for NFTs, including the ability to trade and sell your rare cards. What does having an NFT add?

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#208

Post by neuralzen » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #184

neuralzen wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree there are issues, but the same was (and still is) true in crypto - shitcoins and shitNFTs. That doesn't mean there aren't valuable use cases, or real artistic value and utility in some NFTs, and it doesn't mean there aren't real visionaries building things with authenticity and heart behind them.

Yes it’s very like cryptocurrencies, full of grifters, gamblers, fraud and snake oil salesmen and of course marks who think this ‘revolutionary’ technology is going to change the world and believe the made up prices and wash trades are real. Most of the visionaries have left cryptocurrencies because they realised just how riddled with fraud and grift the ecosystem is so what’s left is people attracted by the money. I…

It remains to be seen, the future is uncertain. There is also a lot more emotional attachment in the space...people do really like the art. Maybe not when it comes to cryptonarwals or whatever, but pieces that are genuine creative endeavors...deafbeef, art blocks, cryptopunks - there is a real love of these in the space, and it does help bind communities together. There will always be scammers and grifters in every walk of life, and it's a personal responsibility to apply critical thinking. But it doesn't discount the value of what is bring brought into focus with the innovation.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#209

Post by larsiusprime » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

darcys22 wrote: post #168

ALittleLight wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Your Twitter profile picture is an image. What stops me from saving your profile and setting mine to the same thing? Are you suggesting Twitter validates that a Twitter account owns an NFT and shows a check/badge/whatever? I also don't think that works. Whatever rare NFT you have I can go make a visually identical NFT for and confirm that I own that NFT. I often think that I must be missing something about NFTs…

Twitter is building exactly that apparently, you would get an ethereum checkmark next to your profile pic if that image is verified. There is definitely discussion happening on exactly your point, but i imagine there are options to combat the fake NFTs given that you can't fake a signature from a known public key. Given that there are so many NFT projects I speculate that the twitter verification will only happen for…

So we’re trusting a centralized service, cool.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#210

Post by Godel_unicode » Fri, Oct 01, 2021, 5:48 AM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #78

Godel_unicode wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because the creator of the NFT totally can't just mint another token right after you buy the first one. Oh wait, just kidding they can. And there's absolutely nothing you can do, because you don't _actually_ own the thing, you just own a trivially replicated pointer to the thing. It's ok though, because at least the original will definitely be the one to be valuable, and not the 42nd, 69th, or 420th. Right? Ri…

But that’s exactly what the scarcity value of a Vermeer is (which is 99% of the value). People can make infinite numbers of copies. NFTs just kind of lay that bare. It’s almost like the concept itself a performance art. “Can we cleave off the scarcity from the art/history/je ne sais quoi that fuels the hoarding of other scarce artifacts, and just sell that disembodied scarcity in a marketplace?”

You seem to have missed the fundamental truth that NFTs are not scarce. With the example of a Vermeer, you create one original thing, and then imitations of that thing. Minting multiple NFTs of the same thing is creating more originals, but of the same thing. One is not somehow "more original" than the others.

This is a difficult concept for people to get their heads around because of the obvious but incorrect parallel between original art and reproductions. It would be slightly closer to say that an NFT is a photo of a Vermeer. Anyone can make more originals at any time and there's nothing you or anyone can do about it.