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NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

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Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so in some cases you’re able to stuff an entire JPEG into the blockchain itself, I’ll grant that. In which case we move on to all the other problems. But For NFTs that are meant to be used in applications, I think my argument still holds. For fully disembodied NFTs where you just stuff a jpeg or it’s hash into a blockchain, my other complaint is that you’re just creating a speculative instrument that doesn’t real…

"my other complaint is that you’re just creating a speculative instrument that doesn’t really do anything except hope someone else will pay more for it." So like bitcoin? - The value is in what someone believes it is worth to be provably in control of a given asset. It also provides a great deal of social currency...certain NFT owners have identity wrapped up in them such that owning it extends social latitudes, as t…

Yes I think Bitcoin is bad as well. Speculation is not productive, and this particular form of it has negative externalities - costs the rest of society is forced to pay, which is both bad and unfair.

Proof of work is far too expensive and wasteful, and the necessary private key discipline to not lose all your coins puts it out of reach of normies (immutability is a bug not a feature for normies), and it’s deflationary which discourages circulation, and it’s got high transaction costs and slow speed, and just massively inefficient. So it fails as a currency, which it was originally pitched as.

Lightning network papers over this (an admission of failure in many ways) but just trades off with new vulnerabilities and further degradation of the original promises.

Make whatever digital assets you want and attach value however you like but own up to the limitations and costs. And pay for your own negative externalities, don’t force them on others.

In most of these projects I feel like it’s the aura of blockchain that’s being sold and not the substance because the actual promises of blockchain (immutability, trustees, decentralization) are always undermined in some way. I wish people would just be more honest about that.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#192
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when I buy a piece of art, I can hang it on my wall and look at it. If I buy an NFT, it doesn't give me the right to print a picture of the art and hang it on the wall. I have no rights to display the picture of which I own the NFT. All I can say is that I own the NFT of that piece of art. So, I can hang the hex code of the NFT on my wall and look at that I suppose. But the actual piece of artwork that is ass…

You talked about selling prints above... Many NFT platforms attach legal terms that explicitly allow you to print or otherwise display the media for NFTs you own, artists generally grant permission for it or consider it a social convention that it is allowed.

Some artists will also make archival prints to sign and send to provable owners, like the Fidenzas.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#193

All of this gushing hype for the future of artistry is transparently performative. Nobody in this tech cares about art or artists, any of the useful functions of NFTs have long been possible and many orders of magnitude less expensive using public key cryptography or digital signatures.

Eh I have spent ~100 on smaller stuff on hicetnunc. The majority has been on art made by people that I know, and I've really enjoyed the new artists that I've found.

I'm uninterested in the NFTs with big price tags, and I'm uninterested in pieces that I don't subjectively enjoy the art of.

I care, but I'm guessing you either didn't literally mean nobody cares, or you are going to brush off this counter example for whatever reason.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so in some cases you’re able to stuff an entire JPEG into the blockchain itself, I’ll grant that. In which case we move on to all the other problems. But For NFTs that are meant to be used in applications, I think my argument still holds. For fully disembodied NFTs where you just stuff a jpeg or it’s hash into a blockchain, my other complaint is that you’re just creating a speculative instrument that doesn’t real…

You might enjoy this project that got a lot of excitement behind it. https://www.lootproject.com/

I don’t see why we need blockchain for this project at all.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scarcity is necessary but not sufficient. What sets BTC apart from NTFs is its fungibility. In theory, there are an infinite number of potential cryptocurrencies, sure. But everyone has already embraced bitcoin (and a small handful of others), and replacing that userbase is an incredibly tall hurdle. On the other hand, minting a new beanie-baby-NFT takes less effort than making an actual beanie baby.

Let’s look beyond the “art” NFTs for a moment and think about how else they can be used. NFTs, in addition to being collectibles, can be used to unlock access to features, like an exclusive chat room or give the holder access to bonus content only available to those X number of NFTs which were minted. Furthermore, secondary markets could easily exist for transferring access, something that is not really doable these…

Unlocking features - you’ve just reinvented a subscription plan. We have those and they work fine, why the blockchain?

Secondary markets - why would vendors want or put up with that?! This is explicitly disallowed in most contracts for a reason.

There is no utility here, the use value of nfts for tracking ownership and of bitcoin as a currency are both close to zero.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#196
post #144

> The venn diagram of NFT haters are almost exact matches of Crypto haters Nonsense. I'm pro-crypto but think NFTs are absolutely idiotic. Scarcity is fundamental to any store of value. There are an infinite number of potential NFTs.

I'm pro-crypto, pro-NFTs, just not pro the current popular use trend of NFTs. I'm sure we'll see much more interesting use cases for NFTs emerge over time, and I'm excited about that.

There are some aspects of the pfp trend that I also don’t like. On the other hand, it’s helping to onboard (wallet, security, metamask…) more people into crypto than any other use case before. Many ready to go beyond collectables.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#197

All of this gushing hype for the future of artistry is transparently performative. Nobody in this tech cares about art or artists, any of the useful functions of NFTs have long been possible and many orders of magnitude less expensive using public key cryptography or digital signatures.

> any of the useful functions of NFTs have long been possible and many orders of magnitude less expensive using public key cryptography or digital signatures. A major useful function being the ability to buy and sell with purely digital money, was that possible before?

Yes? Even if you're exclusively referring to cryptocurrency when you say "purely digital money", it was already possible before the popularity of NFTs to accept cryptocurrency as payment for anything.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true - sure there are projects that use IPFS to host token assets too big to store on-chain (3d assets, photos, etc.), but those assets can be assured to be perfectly correlated with their hashes. Not to mention many projects are fully on-chain, like CryptoPunks and AutoGlyphs.

Ah, so in some cases you’re able to stuff an entire JPEG into the blockchain itself, I’ll grant that. In which case we move on to all the other problems. But For NFTs that are meant to be used in applications, I think my argument still holds. For fully disembodied NFTs where you just stuff a jpeg or it’s hash into a blockchain, my other complaint is that you’re just creating a speculative instrument that doesn’t real…

[deleted]

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#199
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to dig in to understand there is a distributed ledger saying you “own” a jpeg

This is exactly the sort of shallow understanding I mean to point at. NFTs are so much more than "owning jpegs." This is the same mistake as saying "owning bitcoin is just owning a cell in a spreadsheet." Can I have the title to your car? After all, it's just a piece of paper. NFTs are access tokens to social communities, where owning a particular token grants you access to a community that shares ownership. Collab.L…

> you can transfer them verifiably on the secondary market while giving a royalty to the issuer, use them to access a concert, and keep them as a souvenir like a traditional ticket stub.

Which of these can you not do on TicketMaster today?

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you do that at normal auctions using (for lack of a better word) a shill bidder?

You could, and it likely happens in some cases. However, an auction house is going to take significant fees as a percentage of the sale price and your shill bidder will want a cut as well. You’re also going to get a large tax bill because you technically had a realized capital gain and the auction house will report it. With NFTs you can do a blockchain transaction for a relatively small fee by yourself from your comp…

There are taxes as mining fees
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