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NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

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Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#141

Post by neuralzen »

larsiusprime wrote: post #89

I summed up all my complaints about NFT's in this (short) article: https://www.fortressofdoors.com/the-degraded-blockchain-prob... > In short, the minute you connect your blockchain to an app frontend you now have a degraded blockchain, one that cannot even in principle guarantee immutability, trustlessness, and decentralization – at least not for assets that the app's customers actually care about. Scratch the surfa…

This isn't true - sure there are projects that use IPFS to host token assets too big to store on-chain (3d assets, photos, etc.), but those assets can be assured to be perfectly correlated with their hashes. Not to mention many projects are fully on-chain, like CryptoPunks and AutoGlyphs.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#142

Post by somedude895 »

ohdannyboy wrote: post #37
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This would have been more interesting if the author had traced where all the money being plowed into NFTs is coming from. Not possible to trace where the money is coming from. In fact, someone can "sell" an NFT to themself in a wash trade between two wallets they control. The last trade price of the NFT is now recorded as the transaction price, but it's possible that money never actually changed hands. Want to have…

Can't you do that at normal auctions using (for lack of a better word) a shill bidder?

I thought that‘s what often happened in the traditional art market as well. I know it happens in the retro video game market.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#143

Post by cortesoft »

fortuna86 wrote: post #119
rattlesnakedave wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also pro crypto, and this is a silly argument. Consider this statement: Scarcity is fundamental to any store of value. There are an infinite number of potential cryptocurrencies.

> There are an infinite number of potential cryptocurrencies Which is why alt coins are our generation's version of penny stocks. But specific coins have scarcity built in.

And certain NFTs also have scarcity built in. Both NFTs and crypto coins can choose the level of scarcity they want, and all of the value for that scarcity is determined by whatever people believe it to be. NFTs are the exact same thing as crypto coins.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#144

Post by GVRV »

stickfigure wrote: post #2

> The venn diagram of NFT haters are almost exact matches of Crypto haters Nonsense. I'm pro-crypto but think NFTs are absolutely idiotic. Scarcity is fundamental to any store of value. There are an infinite number of potential NFTs.

I'm pro-crypto, pro-NFTs, just not pro the current popular use trend of NFTs.

I'm sure we'll see much more interesting use cases for NFTs emerge over time, and I'm excited about that.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#145

Post by neuralzen »

darcys22 wrote: post #94
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Picasso actually has cultural and historical significance. And we probably had to think about it hard after the work was done. And collections even of the super rich are not necessarily random pieces. They may have hired a curator. An NFT can be some shitty gif hardly worth mentioning let alone displaying.

Its pretty arguable that cryptopunks have cultural and historical significance already. Even if you dont share that sentiment

I agree, they are profoundly historically significant, they are the prototype for the ERC-721 token standard, and are event cited in the whitepaper proposal.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#146

Post by panabee »

it's easy to get blinded by the scams and abuses enabled by new technology, but what matters in the long term are the new benefits and use cases.

will NFTs last? unclear.

however, one benefit is clear and compelling: decentralized royalty capture and IP management.

the NBA and other large enterprises could build and manage IP APIs that mimic NFT functionality.

but what if you're an individual artist? or what if you're taylor swift? today these creators resort to record labels or the equivalent to manage royalties.

NFTs empower individuals to capture royalties and manage IP without a middleman and without needing to build custom APIs; think of them as outsourced APIs.

royalty capture and IP management are the last functions to get disrupted in record label stack. now musicians can choose different "vendors" for the major activities in the value chain, from marketing to funding to creation to distribution -- and now IP/royalty management.

is this enough to sustain NFTs? unclear.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#147

Post by Animats »

ezconnect wrote: post #124

NFT is like the pet rock idea.

EtherRocks[1] are exactly like the pet rock idea.

The real reason NFTs exist is simple. ICOs were shut down by the SEC. The SEC prosecuted a few of the total scam ICOs (the one supposedly backed by diamonds and real estate was the first). Then they sent letters to every ICO issuer in sight: "Please explain why your product is not a security offering which requires SEC registration". Most of the ICOs shut down immediately. Operating from outside the US doesn't help. If you sell into the US (or the EU, or China, or most of the developed world) some regulatory authority wants to have a word with you.

Now, part of the idea behind NFTs was to escape SEC and CFTC regulation. Because each one is different, it's not a commodity, by definition. Is it a security? The Howey test applies, as usual. An NFT which represents something that already exists is probably not a security. That's a collectable. However, there are people selling NFTs that represent land in virtual worlds that haven't been built yet. That's a security; you're funding a startup. Also, "fractional NFTs" are almost certainly a security.

So the legit use of NFTs is to monetize fame. Which is why basketball team owners and musicians are into this. If you're famous enough to sell merch, you may be able to add an NFT to your product line. People will buy, hold, and cherish your thing.

Initial offers of unknown NFTs intended to be resold at a profit are doomed to failure, for the usual pyramid-scheme reasons.

As I point out occasionally, go look at Beanie Babies on eBay. Offering prices around $5000, no bids. Then search for completed sales. Prices around $10-$50. NFT prices are like that. Mostly, you're looking at asking prices and wash sales. NFT markets, like Beanie Babies, don't crash. They stall. There's no liquidity. No market. You may have to advertise to find a buyer. Just like the leggings suckers.

[1] https://cryptopotato.com/what-are-ether-rocks/

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#148

Post by X6S1x6Okd1st »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14
SrslyJosh wrote: post #3

This would have been more interesting if the author had traced where all the money being plowed into NFTs is coming from. I suspect that most of it does not come from outside of the current ETH (or whatever) ecosystem. I'd bet that most of the volume comes from people who are either treating it as play money, or trying to pump the NFT scam for their own benefit (real or imagined).

> This would have been more interesting if the author had traced where all the money being plowed into NFTs is coming from. Not possible to trace where the money is coming from. In fact, someone can "sell" an NFT to themself in a wash trade between two wallets they control. The last trade price of the NFT is now recorded as the transaction price, but it's possible that money never actually changed hands. Want to have…

> Not possible to trace where the money is coming from.

Chain analysis is certainly something you can do.

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#149

Post by neuralzen »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #100

If you buy an NFT for a piece of art, you can't even sell prints of the piece of art. You can't take a pic of it and sell a t-shirt of the art. You own nothing associated with that piece of art, except for the NFT itself. It's such a strange, strange concept to want to invest in. What if they create a new NFT blockchain standard. Does the previous NFT become invalid? Is there anything contractual saying you can't hav…

This isn't true, it depends entirely on the project and the rights assigned. Meebits and Bored Apes give commercial rights up to 100k USD/yr (a formal agreement is required if exceeded), and Cryptoadz grant fully open CC0 rights to the owners to use in any purpose. - Also, when in the past few decades have you ever bought a piece of art from a creator and assumed that would give you commercial rights to their creation?

Re: NFT projects are just MLMs for tech elites

#150

Post by 0xB31B1B »

neuralzen wrote: post #131

As someone who was early in both crypto and NFTs, I really don't get the hate from the crypto community especially. They are a powerful tool for artists and creators to manage their works, especially digital artists who could never control their art before. They can and do manage commercial and IP rights, artist royalties, help self-organize DAOs and other efforts, and assure the authenticity and provenance with a ca…

The hate is because the realized instantiation of the supposed value creates a bunch of collections of four thousand images of a rabbit or something stupid. The NFT community is largely a bunch of people hyping up crappy animal picture collections on twitter as the next big thing. The attraction to the medium is not through aesthetics or craft, but through FOMO.
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