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Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

economist.com

111–120 of 344 posts

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#111

Hm, this seems to be missing the point that plant monocrops destroy the soil and are not nearly as efficient a source of food for the human body as fresh animal meat. Regenerative agriculture, which ideally requires both animal and plant cultivation, would be a better path forward if it could scale. If I remember correctly the papers that originally thought cattle were a big contributor to global warming turned out t…

That article seems highly motivated to marginalize the effects of livestock. Quoting a section: While methane is 28-times more heat-trapping than carbon dioxide, methane’s lifespan is just a decade, while CO2 — known as a long-life pollutant — remains in the atmosphere for 1000 years. After ten years, methane is broken down in a process called hydroxyl oxidation into CO2, entering a carbon cycle which sees the gas ab…

There is a certain amount of carbon in the atmosphere, and a certain amount of carbon in the ground.

When you burn oil, you take carbon from the ground and introduce it into the atmosphere. This increases the total amount of carbon resident in the atmosphere.

When you grow plants, you take carbon out of the atmosphere. When you eat it, you release it back into the atmosphere. The total amount of carbon resident in the atmosphere does not change.

Grass grows more vigorously when regularly pruned, for example by a grazing animal. Farms also make a point of planting thing which grow quickly and efficiently. Thus it's reasonable to expect that farming could increase the rate of carbon turnover in the atmosphere, which would create the appearance of increased carbon emissions without a corresponding increase in the amount of carbon resident in the atmosphere.

In practice, farms regularly use synthetic fertilizers. They might cut down trees to clear fields for animals. They use heavy, oil burning equipment. These, and many other practices, actually increase atmospheric carbon, and for that reason should be discouraged. But the cow itself only causes a short lived, fixed increase in atmospheric methane and an increased rate of carbon turnover.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#112
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are its main points?

Arguments that meat take an excessive amount of resources are disingenuous because those resources cannot simply be translated to other uses, examples being that the water use example many tout uses rainwater would fall anyways, that livestock will eventually urinate meaning it isn't actually lost, and land used for livestock is mostly non arable land and therefore cant be used for producing crops anyways. Also there…

"land used for livestock is mostly non arable land and therefore cant be used for producing crops anyways."

so what is it that they grow then cut and roll into those large objects? here they even grow corn for feed.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#113
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>To be fair, that has nothing to do with the current economy, where almost all cows go to feed lots to be fed human food (corn) to double their weight. Have you travled outside the US? This is not true in most parts of the world, I wouldn't be suprised to see it only being a US practice.

Yes, I've visited several dozen countries, and I assure you that the practice of using feedlots has spread to most developed countries, and is being spread to the less developed world as a way to increase incomes. Nice insult, btw. I had to send my passport to get more pages sewn in.

that seems like a waste of time, here they just give you a new one.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#114
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than being headed into a new medieval era because climate change caused civilization to collapse.

I will not eat the bugs.

I prefer legumes as sources of protein myself as well.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#115
post #85

> The simplest way to cut beef output is for people to eat other animals instead, or become vegetarians. That’s like, in 1900, saying “the simplest way to prevent road deaths is for everyone to drive slower.” That’s not simple at all - that’s an intractable group behavior problem. What you really need is for the government to come along and put up speed limits. Most people will push those rules, a few will flout them…

Do I need to pay carbon tax on my dog?

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#117
post #64

It feels like we are headed into a new medieval era of sumptuary laws and moral decrees promulgated by a decentralized international clerical-academic class. I don't think I like it very much

Better than being headed into a new medieval era because climate change caused civilization to collapse.

Revealed preferences don't match that rhetoric.

- People are not migrating North in droves. They are not preparing in any way.

- Nuclear energy, the only realistic solution to climate change, is not being supported. It's actually being retired early in many cases and replaced with coal of all things.

- Property prices on the coastline are going up. President Obama, who has access to the best information and experts, bought a huge property on the Martha's Vineyard coast in 2019.

- There is little to no push to improve the water supply in preparation for droughts, not even in California.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#118

Hm, this seems to be missing the point that plant monocrops destroy the soil and are not nearly as efficient a source of food for the human body as fresh animal meat. Regenerative agriculture, which ideally requires both animal and plant cultivation, would be a better path forward if it could scale. If I remember correctly the papers that originally thought cattle were a big contributor to global warming turned out t…

That article seems highly motivated to marginalize the effects of livestock. Quoting a section: While methane is 28-times more heat-trapping than carbon dioxide, methane’s lifespan is just a decade, while CO2 — known as a long-life pollutant — remains in the atmosphere for 1000 years. After ten years, methane is broken down in a process called hydroxyl oxidation into CO2, entering a carbon cycle which sees the gas ab…

When measured over 100 years, methane has about 21 times the global warming potential of CO2.

When measured over 10 years, it's more like 81 times.

So the "28 times" already allows for the fact that it's mostly only there for 10 years.

https://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/methane-vs-c...

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#120
post #108

I disagree, its a percentage of roughly 10% according to the EPA in 2019. Here are the EPA statistics. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis... I am all for replacing them with native buffalo, but this is overemphasis on minute percentages, this information presented is much too technology based and not practical, it relies on assumptions about plant based foods and lab meat (farming crops is t…

10% is a smaller part of total emissions than transportation or electricity generation, but it's still pretty significant chunk. If we can reduce emissions related to beef somehow that would be a step forward. I'm skeptical of that Dearman engine article. It doesn't really explain where the energy comes from. We already know how to do carbon neutral energy and transportation: use solar/wind/hydroelectric/nuclear and…

The energy is from compression, there are videos of it. Rather than small hot explosions that move pistons, the cold will pull rather than push the pistons as it does in combustion engines. Its main enemy will be cheap used diesel.
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