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Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

economist.com

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Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#11

Post by hellbannedguy »

beckman466 wrote: post #2

this is a half-baked ‘solution‘ that just makes eating meat a luxury. a thing only for the rich. it’ll be like crimes that are punished by a fine - they just become the ‘fee’ that allows the propertied class to do whatever they want. beef is deadly for humanity because of destructive water and land usage (Vice had a great video showing the Amazon deforestation due to beef production). edit: my point is that the prope…

It's time to tie all societal fees/fines to income.

Start with using 1040's.

Yes--their will be guys whom try to game the system, but many will eventually get caught.

For example, a a patent fee to a poor man is nothing.

A wealthy man pays current rates.

A poor man drives through a red light; the fine might get the last straw, or rent.

A wealthy guy drives through a red light, he casually mentions it over dinner to Clair.

I have never felt it was fair, even when I had money.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#12

Post by tfehring »

throwawaysea wrote: post #4

I can’t view the whole article due to the paywall, but I have to ask - where does this line of thinking lead? Does every pleasurable activity we might voluntarily undertake get scrutinized, regulated, or banned? I certainly hope not, since such losses of freedom can make the tyranny of the majority very real. It’s important that any potential policies are applied in a fair manner. For example, priced externalities sh…

There's nothing moralistic about a carbon tax - it's a Pigouvian tax, not a sin tax. The point of a Pigouvian tax isn't to say "I don't like that thing so let's tax it so other people do less of it," it's to say "Do what you want but don't make me or my children pay for the externalities it creates."

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#15

Post by version_five »

throwawaysea wrote: post #4

I can’t view the whole article due to the paywall, but I have to ask - where does this line of thinking lead? Does every pleasurable activity we might voluntarily undertake get scrutinized, regulated, or banned? I certainly hope not, since such losses of freedom can make the tyranny of the majority very real. It’s important that any potential policies are applied in a fair manner. For example, priced externalities sh…

I think totalitarians just like more rules so they can be used as needed against people they don't like. It seems like advocates for these kind of things are generally in a position of privilege where they won't be personally affected. In practice, as another poster pointed out, it just becomes a war on the poor. If the price of steak doubles (and it has already doubled in the last few years) I'll pay it and grumble but it won't materially effect me and I wont change my behavior. Poor people who can't afford $30 per person per meal will just have to eat a substitute, which I guess is what advocates want.

This all (I mean basically every "progressive" restriction) just seems like a way to increase inequality and make sure the poor always stay very poor and the wealthy can do whatever they want.

I can drive my Posche plug-in hybrid in the carpool lane while the chump his old Corolla has to sit in traffic. Does that really do anything but increase inequality. (I dont really have Porsche, I can't imagine a more ridiculous choice, but I'm surrounded with people that do)

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#16

Post by jeffbee »

throwawaysea wrote: post #4

I can’t view the whole article due to the paywall, but I have to ask - where does this line of thinking lead? Does every pleasurable activity we might voluntarily undertake get scrutinized, regulated, or banned? I certainly hope not, since such losses of freedom can make the tyranny of the majority very real. It’s important that any potential policies are applied in a fair manner. For example, priced externalities sh…

The most straightforwardly fair way to do it is a carbon budget. If each person has some carbon budget and you want to spend yours on beef and I want to spend mine on motorcycle racing fuel, who is to argue we made the wrong choice?

It goes back to one of my pet peeves that it is increasingly hard to find the kind of light bulbs I prefer, despite the fact that the electric supply to my home is powered by 100% renewable energy generated on site. I don't like that it was collateral damage of a grossly approximate attempt to lower residential fossil-generated energy consumption.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#17

Post by wumpus »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #7

I disagree, its a percentage of roughly 10% according to the EPA in 2019. Here are the EPA statistics. https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emis... I am all for replacing them with native buffalo, but this is overemphasis on minute percentages, this information presented is much too technology based and not practical, it relies on assumptions about plant based foods and lab meat (farming crops is t…

> interested in virute signaling rather than practical applications.

Love the insult, I'm sure it helps the conversation along to a good conclusion.

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#18

Post by fidgetspinner »

Hm, this seems to be missing the point that plant monocrops destroy the soil and are not nearly as efficient a source of food for the human body as fresh animal meat. Regenerative agriculture, which ideally requires both animal and plant cultivation, would be a better path forward if it could scale. If I remember correctly the papers that originally thought cattle were a big contributor to global warming turned out to be pretty incorrect when they were re-examined as well https://carolinestocks.medium.com/debunking-the-methane-myth...

Re: Treating beef like coal would make a big dent in greenhouse-gas emissions

#19

Post by wumpus »

seiferteric wrote: post #6

power is fungible. Nobody cares where their electricity comes from. Coal is failing because it is not price competitive. Food is not fungible, so I am not sure what point this is making.

Lots of foods are commodities, so I'm not exactly sure why you think they aren't fungible. Soybeans, corn, pork bellies, ...
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