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Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

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Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#141

Post by heydabop »

harry8 wrote: post #116
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chances of you being directly spied on are low. The chances of someone being spied on who could influence the world around you is much higher. So a journalist could be spied on right before they break a big story, potentially leading to a cover up. That’s the problem with stuff like this. Even if you have “nothing to hide” you might rely on someone who legitimately does.

Without disagreeing with anything you've said there, even if you /think/ you have nothing to hide now and happen to be correct in practice, it's a terrible assumption to think that you can count on that being true forever. Imagine you witness a murder in a restaurant, cold blooded and it's dirty cops working for a three letter institution that did it. You want to give evidence like a law abiding, upstanding citizen w…

You don't even have to get that radical with "nothing to hide".

Next time someone says that ask if they use blinds in their house/apt, if you could setup a webcam in their living room, or if you could just read some texts between them and a significant other. Or ask for their passwords, date of birth, SSN, credit card numbers, pets' names, and parents' names.

Simple things like this are why I talk to people via Signal and why I'll never get a Ring/Nest doorbell, or any other 3rd party owned internet connected camera.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#142

Post by ClumsyPilot »

trangus_1985 wrote: post #42
saagarjha wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that document mentions the AOP just once, only confirming its existence. It doesn't actually describe what it does.

They do yearly updates, the 2022 doc will very likely have more information. Regardless, the 2021 doc has some key foundations of the technology that are worth knowing. The contract tracing docs _should_ be almost the same technology, and knowing how that works _should_ be a good start. At least, from my eyeing the OP's article as a lay person.

"They do yearly updates, the 2022 doc will very likely have more information."

Sure you document such stuff before releasing it?

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#143

Post by heydabop »

bushbaba wrote: post #78
pininja wrote: post #15

Very interesting read. This seems to be implemented as a Bluetooth LE app running on the ultra-low power “always on processor” used for a variety of features, like “wake-up on motion.” Much like an Tile or AirTag is implemented. No comment on what this is capable in the future.. but for now this shows power usage / signal strength / proximity of other “actually on” devices are a limitations of this feature. What’s im…

> I’ll be pretty shocked if I’m “spied on” with this style of device. Why? There's plenty of devices in the wild constantly looking for wifi connection attempts, BLE Scans. Even cellular provider track locations in real-time by logging what cell towers you're using and associated signal strength. Just search for a place in google maps, and note the "Popular Times". How do you think they got that data :D

> Even cellular provider track locations in real-time by logging what cell towers you're using and associated signal strength.

They also sell that data, and until about 3 years ago, anyone could access it FOR FREE! :D

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2018/05/tracking-firm-locationsm...

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#144

Post by nbzso »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #138
nbzso wrote: post #132

Hmm. Feeling very good about dumping iPhone to simple flip. My last iPhone was old SE with home button and touch ID. Somehow I managed to remove smartphone habits of my life. It is a bliss. Highly recommend. It is a stellar investment in ones future, psychologically, technically and in general.

Personally I find it rare to actually call someone, so a flip phone would be mostly useless to me. I suppose texting is still a thing though.

I redeveloped the habit to call. It is more personal and surprisingly effective. People actually respect a phone call, when done properly. Texting is compromised, services never delete data.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#145

Post by SilverRed »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #60
eminence32 wrote: post #48

It's also interesting that this low-power mode is sufficiently low power for Apple to be feel comfortable sipping battery power continually. Any guesses about how much power this mode actually uses?

Other Bluetooth LE devices like an AirTag can last beyond one year on a CR2032 battery, so consuming about 2 milli-watt-hours (mWh) per day. An iPhone has at least 10 000 mWh battery capacity (depends on model), so in 1 month something like this consumes around 0.6 percentage points of battery.

I would think the normal drain of a battery sitting on the shelf is more than this feature uses.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#146

Post by TechBro8615 »

anchpop wrote: post #88
xg15 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know about it.

you have to opt in when setting up a new device, and I think when updating to the OS version that enabled it

Maybe I missed declining a prompt in setup, but this latest feature was opt-out, automatically enabled after a software update, and only notified me once, the first time I powered off the phone after updating. To disable the feature, I had to go four levels deep in Settings, with the last two levels having seemingly unrelated names, disable a toggle, and accept a misleading confirmation prompt.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#147

Post by SilverRed »

bangonkeyboard wrote: post #122
judge2020 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/psL_5RIBqnY?t=6687 > Now, Find My combines Find My iPhone with Find My Friends... And it has a new twist because it can now even locate Apple devices that are offline... Let's say you have misplaced your MacBook. So, even when it's offline and sleeping, it sends out a secure Bluetooth beacon that can be detected by other people's Apple devices nearby. Now, they can relay your MacBook's location to th…

"Offline" != "Off"

For the average user they are the same thing. "off" is not even a state the average user uses. It's either open and connected to the network or closed and in sleep mode.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#148

Post by SilverRed »

xg15 wrote: post #75
Jtsummers wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has made it easier for users to locate lost (by being misplaced, forgotten, or stolen) devices with a feature that the user can opt out of on a temporary or permanent basis. What is controversial about this?

> What is controversial about this? I'll predict that almost no one opted out of this for the simple reason that they didn't know this feature even existed. This is the "Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" method of faking consent.

They show it clearly above the slider when shutting down. Since this is a feature virtually 100% of users want on. This seems appropriate.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#149

Post by pininja »

plzbo wrote: post #111
pininja wrote: post #15

Very interesting read. This seems to be implemented as a Bluetooth LE app running on the ultra-low power “always on processor” used for a variety of features, like “wake-up on motion.” Much like an Tile or AirTag is implemented. No comment on what this is capable in the future.. but for now this shows power usage / signal strength / proximity of other “actually on” devices are a limitations of this feature. What’s im…

Just a simple question. Do you believe in freedom of speech? In freedom of the press? If yes, why do you think it would be shocking if you are spied on? You are being spied on at this moment. So what are you going to do?

We’ve just got a different interpretation of what I wrote. Of course my data and location is tracked all the time - it’s an endless stream. I was referring the thought I’d have if I was to become aware that my Bluetooth signal of my “powered off” iphone was the data source used to spy on me. There are plenty of easier ways to do it… and my phone is usually powered on.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#150

Post by TechBro8615 »

judge2020 wrote: post #97
solarkraft wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps because the bluetooth tracking is a lot more accurate. But since not even Apple can access the data (or so they claim), this shouldn’t be useful for surveillance.

Exactly. All mass surveillance request go straight to Google thanks to their unencrypted location tracking.

What unencrypted location tracking does this comment refer to?
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