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Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

naehrdine.blogspot.com

121–130 of 267 posts

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#121
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes which supports all kinds of functionality that people like. Just because you have a processor on or mic listening for wake words doesn’t mean everything is always being transmitted or evil is being done. No, but it means that I’m losing agency in whether or not those things can happen. That’s not ok and not benign.

The 'listen for music' feature on pixel phones is optional and off by default.

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Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#122
post #33

It's what Apple doesn't announce or tell us in their updates that are the most interesting things to discover rather than the features they show us in their keynotes. Keep that in mind.

https://youtu.be/psL_5RIBqnY?t=6687 > Now, Find My combines Find My iPhone with Find My Friends... And it has a new twist because it can now even locate Apple devices that are offline... Let's say you have misplaced your MacBook. So, even when it's offline and sleeping, it sends out a secure Bluetooth beacon that can be detected by other people's Apple devices nearby. Now, they can relay your MacBook's location to th…

"Offline" != "Off"

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#123
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is such a capability (a rather technically involved one, I might add, all the way down to the silicon), do you really believe Apple can't turn it on at CIA/NSA's request without popping that dialog? And you wouldn't even know due to gag orders. And before you say this can't happen in the US, I can give you a few publicized examples of illegal spying on US citizens just in the past few years.

People have been carrying around portable GPS devices in their pockets for over a decade now. This threat is not new, and if you fear it, don't carry around a GPS device or one that will connect to other devices to get its location reported to a central server.

The difference, which will be missed by many, is that previously you could be reasonably certain your device is actually not spying on you if you power it off. That option is gone now. You should just assume it's on and sending your data directly to whoever wants it.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#124
post #82

In some way this feature reminded me of Android's song detection functionality which is also on by default and is constantly listening in the background [1]. So now tech companies normalized that: - the mic is always on. - the phone is always on, even when it's off. (thanks to AOP) - devices are always online even when they are offline.(thanks to company-operated p2p networks like Find My or Sidewalk) What could poss…

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Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#125
i'm guessing they probably added this around when they added keyphrase spotting (wake words) for siri although i think i remember reading about low power always on features being added for pedometry to both androids and iphones way back when.

android has similar functionality, as does any modern computer really (wake on lan, power management, remote management features, etc)

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#126
post #15

Very interesting read. This seems to be implemented as a Bluetooth LE app running on the ultra-low power “always on processor” used for a variety of features, like “wake-up on motion.” Much like an Tile or AirTag is implemented. No comment on what this is capable in the future.. but for now this shows power usage / signal strength / proximity of other “actually on” devices are a limitations of this feature. What’s im…

The chances of you being directly spied on are low. The chances of someone being spied on who could influence the world around you is much higher. So a journalist could be spied on right before they break a big story, potentially leading to a cover up. That’s the problem with stuff like this. Even if you have “nothing to hide” you might rely on someone who legitimately does.

Just consider the possibility that any large multi-national corporation or national government these days has datacenters that contain untold computational power. A hundred thousand CPU cores to a hundred million, with petabytes of RAM and perhaps exabytes of storage. It is now not only entirely feasible but it is but a flesh wound to surveil everyone, everywhere, all the time. In fact, it's far less suspicious to just constantly suck in as much data as possible all the time, and filter, index, and store it for later. In the event of a mass casualty event, like a Boston marathon bombing, 9/11, or something like what you mentioned, there will be no activation necessary, just a few SQL queries, maybe a mapreduce.

You are nothing. You are navel lint. But all the navel lint gets sucked up into the filter, too.

Welcome to the quiet all-seeing eye. Tremble and kneel to those who will wield it! Don't deviate from social norms. Don't be different. Don't stick out. Just pretend you don't know.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#127

It's also interesting that this low-power mode is sufficiently low power for Apple to be feel comfortable sipping battery power continually. Any guesses about how much power this mode actually uses?

the NFC chip probably uses a tab bit more power, but it also uses battery after your phone dies to allow you to continue to pay for transit. "power reserve is available for up to five hours when your iPhone needs to be charged". https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209495#:~:text=power%20res... .

Your phone isn't actually "dead" when it shows out of battery though, since the display can still power on for another hour+. There's a reserve before you hit the true 0%.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#128
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chances of you being directly spied on are low. The chances of someone being spied on who could influence the world around you is much higher. So a journalist could be spied on right before they break a big story, potentially leading to a cover up. That’s the problem with stuff like this. Even if you have “nothing to hide” you might rely on someone who legitimately does.

Without disagreeing with anything you've said there, even if you /think/ you have nothing to hide now and happen to be correct in practice, it's a terrible assumption to think that you can count on that being true forever. Imagine you witness a murder in a restaurant, cold blooded and it's dirty cops working for a three letter institution that did it. You want to give evidence like a law abiding, upstanding citizen w…

Except in that case you don't know you have to hide and 101 other things you do make you easier to track than this. And odds are you're not turning off your phone all the way every single time you change locations to start so...

I have nothing to hide is different than "I literally need to hide".

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#129
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chances of you being directly spied on are low. The chances of someone being spied on who could influence the world around you is much higher. So a journalist could be spied on right before they break a big story, potentially leading to a cover up. That’s the problem with stuff like this. Even if you have “nothing to hide” you might rely on someone who legitimately does.

Without disagreeing with anything you've said there, even if you /think/ you have nothing to hide now and happen to be correct in practice, it's a terrible assumption to think that you can count on that being true forever. Imagine you witness a murder in a restaurant, cold blooded and it's dirty cops working for a three letter institution that did it. You want to give evidence like a law abiding, upstanding citizen w…

Fully agree. This idea that "individuals arent spied on in America" is absurdly naive and ignorant of seemingly common knowledge of past events. Furthermore it's kind of implicitly supremacist - "only those foreigners do that sort of thing".

Police regularly bust young Chinese for marijuana possession by reading their chat messages. And we are just as human and no more special than the Chinese.

A friend of mine was taken into an unmarked van and questioned after some tweets he made while at an Occupy Wall Street protest. The motives absolutely exist in the US.

Re: Always-on Processor magic: How Find My works while iPhone is powered off

#130
post #15

Very interesting read. This seems to be implemented as a Bluetooth LE app running on the ultra-low power “always on processor” used for a variety of features, like “wake-up on motion.” Much like an Tile or AirTag is implemented. No comment on what this is capable in the future.. but for now this shows power usage / signal strength / proximity of other “actually on” devices are a limitations of this feature. What’s im…

> This seems to be implemented as a Bluetooth LE app running on the ultra-low power “always on processor” used for a variety of features, like “wake-up on motion.”

Which, presumably, mere mortal developers have no access to?

Sigh. Again.

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