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US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

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121–130 of 168 posts

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#121

This is more a discussion of semantics than about the amount itself. The way I read the statistics is that the current debt is $28T of money that is already spent while the quoted debt of $146T is the amount of money needed to be spent to fill full current promises and expenses . It's interesting that since the USA got off the gold standard in 1971[1], and thereby all countries that had a currency backed by dollars,…

Well my $100 IKEA desk is currently 11 years old. I'll get back to you in 29 years.

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#122
post #55

This is disingenuous, alarmist, click-bait, bulls**t. The $28T figure consists of: * ~$6T held by the Federal Reserve: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FDHBFRBN -- this is money that the government owes, quite literally, to itself , made possible by the independence of the Federal Reserve, which has been buying government obligations to keep interest rates low. * ~$7T held by foreigners: https://fred.stlouisfed.org…

I think it is reasonable to count debt that is owned to other tax payers. As clearly that debt is not going to be defaulted on so taxpayers not owning it must pay it back to someone else...

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#123
post #64
post #11

Nobody cares anymore. People are working, resources are being extracted, created and traded, economies are rolling. Money is there to facilitate that, but on its own it's pretty much worthless. Just wish inequality wasn't so fucking huge.

Inequality seems like a meaningless metric. It's not a good measure of a society's well being. For example, let's assume a country of 10 where 9 people have $1 million and 1 person has $100 trillion. The inequality is massive but everyone has a great standard of living.

That’s not how the Gini coefficient[1] is being calculated.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#124
post #37

This is more a discussion of semantics than about the amount itself. The way I read the statistics is that the current debt is $28T of money that is already spent while the quoted debt of $146T is the amount of money needed to be spent to fill full current promises and expenses . It's interesting that since the USA got off the gold standard in 1971[1], and thereby all countries that had a currency backed by dollars,…

> Everything is getting too expensive, and the only reason we don't feel this too much just yet, is because often times cheaper alternatives where available. Dead on. It's pressure from both sides, so to speak. Not only are we paying more for goods, the goods themselves are declining in quality. Furniture is a great example. Another is home appliances. Refrigerators, washers and driers etc have absolutely tanked in q…

Cost-engineered home appliances just didn’t exist in the mid 20th century. Appliances were luxury goods. The average clothes dryer in 1950 was very reliable because it was a clothesline. The fact that we fix them now is because affordable options exist. And the fact that many people throw them away instead of investing in a repair on their vacuum is because they’re now cheap enough that the labor doesn’t make sense to spend on it.

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chicago’s pension debt soared by approximately $1.1 billion in 2020, according to the city’s audited annual financial report for 2020. So, by about 3%, and about 10% of annual revenue. (In an... unusual year.) Buy a house and chances are your debt soars by more than 10% of annual salary, right?

I don't believe you're making an accurate comparison between a household balance sheet and unfunded pension liabilities Chicago (and Illinois) have.

The point: As with a mortgage, Chicago's pension liabilities are due over years, not all at once. That makes comparisons like "$11B annual revenue, $33B pensions" disingenuous.

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#126
post #95

If America defaults and wipes the foreign debt, what happens worldwide?

Why would it default? It has USD (fiat it controls) denominated debt, it can literally pay any debt through monitory expansion.

> Why would it default? It has USD (fiat it controls) denominated debt, it can literally pay any debt through monitory expansion.

Not if it wants to be able to borrow in the future... Look at what happened in 1978 - they had to issue non-USD bonds since foreign banks weren't willing to purchase USD bonds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carter_bonds

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#127
post #30

It's a misleading way of calculating the number, since it refers to all of the future debt obligations, including Social Security out many decades -- but also ignoring the fact that we'll be collecting taxes all that time. It's a bit like concluding that you're a million dollars in debt because you are going to need to buy food for the rest of your life. I suppose it's true -- it is something you need to plan for. Bu…

The real misleading part, to the point of being actively malicious, is "Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k". This is intended to make the median viewer, who will never see that much money at once in their entire life (and will take 20+ years to even make that much before-tax), feel that the Federal government is being irresponsible. It's an obvious push for fiscal conservatism which, crucially may or may not be warranted b…

feel that the Federal government is being irresponsible.

It is.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-spendi...

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#128
post #31
post #11

Nobody cares anymore. People are working, resources are being extracted, created and traded, economies are rolling. Money is there to facilitate that, but on its own it's pretty much worthless. Just wish inequality wasn't so fucking huge.

On the inequality front - I just wish the media didn't fan the flames all the time and make it feel like the only thing that matters. If I didn't know how the rest of the world lives I probably wouldn't care as much about it. If I see stories about it all the time and people flaunting their wealth it aggravates me. I also recognize it is a real problem and we can solve it likely through policy/political will power. I…

It is exceptionally deceptive, particularly in massive economies like the US which produce dramatic scaling outcomes like a Bezos or Gates, an Apple or Netflix or Walmart. China is going to struggle with that same issue persistently.

And it's also true that it's pretty clear the US median wealth figure should be higher than it is, considering the vast average wealth figure in the US. The gap between those two numbers should not be as great as it is. And blatantly the bottom 50% of the population should have a lot more wealth than they do at present.

Maybe if the US had eg a good universal healthcare system (and no more medical bankruptcies), half of the country wouldn't mind so much that that median vs average wealth gap is what it is. Social contracts are important. You get this, they get that. As it is, the US social contract is not so great these days, compared to other affluent peer nations. The US has a large welfare state and gets a lot less for its spending compared to other peers. If our healthcare costs matched Britain per capita, Medicaid could instantly expand to cover 40-45% of the population for example, at no additional cost.

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#129

This is more a discussion of semantics than about the amount itself. The way I read the statistics is that the current debt is $28T of money that is already spent while the quoted debt of $146T is the amount of money needed to be spent to fill full current promises and expenses . It's interesting that since the USA got off the gold standard in 1971[1], and thereby all countries that had a currency backed by dollars,…

The gold standard ended in 1933. Bretton Woods wasn't really a return to the gold standard. It was really just a way for the US to profit off of the recovery from WW2. They wasn't particularly careful with printing money back then either. Europe and Japan were desperate for international liquidity to rebuild their economies, so they were initially happy to exchange gold for dollars at unfavorable rates. After they no longer needed the dollar, they stopped purchasing them, so the US had no choice but to end Bretton Woods.

Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k

#130
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it would. We could pay the entire thing off with that. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/how-much-wealth-top-1percent... > The wealthiest 1% of Americans controlled about $41.52 trillion in the first quarter, according to Federal Reserve data released Monday. Can't do it again as easily, of course.

Most rich people don’t have all their wealth in cold hard cash. They have assets. You can’t force rich people to sell their assets. And if you did, it would crash the economy.

The IRS can most certainly seize and sell assets to settle tax debt.
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