Sounds like we need to start taxing the rich a lot more to pay it off.
Yeah, just strangle the golden goose and we'll eat like kings tonight.
Tonight.
US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
61–70 of 168 posts
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Can you imagine an piece of IKEA furniture being used daily and lasting for >40 years? Yeah. IKEA's not bad.
Some of the higher end IKEA stuff is not bad, I have a bed frame that's solid wood, looks great and I could easily keep it for decades. Most of the IKEA furniture I bought in my younger days is compressed cardboard and have been replaced because it was starting to fall apart after a few house moves and wear and tear.
IIRC my parents IKEA dining table is solid wood and we've been using it 20+ years.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#63It's a misleading way of calculating the number, since it refers to all of the future debt obligations, including Social Security out many decades -- but also ignoring the fact that we'll be collecting taxes all that time. It's a bit like concluding that you're a million dollars in debt because you are going to need to buy food for the rest of your life. I suppose it's true -- it is something you need to plan for. Bu…
Would also note that if you're incorporating unfunded future liabilities, it also makes sense to cancel out intergovernmental debt, e.g. Treasuries held by the Federal Reserve or by agencies.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#64Nobody cares anymore. People are working, resources are being extracted, created and traded, economies are rolling. Money is there to facilitate that, but on its own it's pretty much worthless. Just wish inequality wasn't so fucking huge.
Inequality seems like a meaningless metric. It's not a good measure of a society's well being.
For example, let's assume a country of 10 where 9 people have $1 million and 1 person has $100 trillion. The inequality is massive but everyone has a great standard of living.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My parents are in their 70's and they still have furniture that was (second hand) given to them when they got married. Can you imagine an piece of IKEA furniture being used daily and lasting for >40 years? Two answers: 1) Yes. Very, very easily. For at least some IKEA furniture. 2) I somehow doubt that second hand furniture was from the 'IKEA of that day'.
Ad 2) There were no alternatives to local carpenters 100 years back. If you wanted a wardrobe, you would get one built for you. You can still do that today, and get a wardrobe for 8K, that lasts 40years. But now we do have "cheaper alternatives". His point exactly.
> There were no alternatives to local carpenters 100 years back.
That's ridiculous - of course there were. Sears & Roebuck were selling furniture out of their catalog well over 100 years ago, and that was far from the only option.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#66Sounds like we need to start taxing the rich a lot more to pay it off.
If you tax 100% of the money rich people have, it wouldn’t even put a dent in the debt.
Sure it would. We could pay the entire thing off with that.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/23/how-much-wealth-top-1percent...
> The wealthiest 1% of Americans controlled about $41.52 trillion in the first quarter, according to Federal Reserve data released Monday.
Can't do it again as easily, of course.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#67This is more a discussion of semantics than about the amount itself. The way I read the statistics is that the current debt is $28T of money that is already spent while the quoted debt of $146T is the amount of money needed to be spent to fill full current promises and expenses . It's interesting that since the USA got off the gold standard in 1971[1], and thereby all countries that had a currency backed by dollars,…
> Can you imagine an piece of IKEA furniture being used daily and lasting for >40 years? Yeah. IKEA's not bad.
Every piece of IKEA furniture I've owned has collapsed or fallen apart within 5 years. I've got an old coffee table I carried in on a skateboard when I was like 13 or something that I found during spring cleanup. It's solid and made of real wood. It's been going strong for 20 years now of heavy use and who knows how long it was used before I got it. I can see it lasting another 20 years easily.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#68It's a misleading way of calculating the number, since it refers to all of the future debt obligations, including Social Security out many decades -- but also ignoring the fact that we'll be collecting taxes all that time. It's a bit like concluding that you're a million dollars in debt because you are going to need to buy food for the rest of your life. I suppose it's true -- it is something you need to plan for. Bu…
If you were valuing a company you would add the value of the pension fund but subtract the present value of the pension liabilities. When considering the level of indebtedness of the Federal government, I think liabilities such as Social Security and Medicare should be included.
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#69It's a misleading way of calculating the number, since it refers to all of the future debt obligations, including Social Security out many decades -- but also ignoring the fact that we'll be collecting taxes all that time. It's a bit like concluding that you're a million dollars in debt because you are going to need to buy food for the rest of your life. I suppose it's true -- it is something you need to plan for. Bu…
>ignoring the fact that we'll be collecting taxes all that time.
This is all wrong and it does not ignore this. The calculation only includes the portion of future obligations that can not be funded based on future revenue estimates. It does not simply take future expenses without taking into account future revenue as that would be patently absurd.
Furthermore it only includes future obligations that have currently been committed to, so for example it does not make projections about people who will at some point in the future be enrolled into Social Security (for example people not yet born).
Re: US Published National Debt: $28T. The Truth: $146T. Each Taxpayer's Share: $951k
#70This is more a discussion of semantics than about the amount itself. The way I read the statistics is that the current debt is $28T of money that is already spent while the quoted debt of $146T is the amount of money needed to be spent to fill full current promises and expenses . It's interesting that since the USA got off the gold standard in 1971[1], and thereby all countries that had a currency backed by dollars,…
Who cares though? Do you really want to keep something like the same pieces of furniture your whole life? Sounds depressing. People like buying new stuff.
This got downvoted, presumably because someone probably think it sounds like a "lol, old people r dumb" view, but ... it's insightful to realize that if, on average, people's attitudes change such that they don't WANT to keep their goods forever, there is no value placed on a piece of furniture that lasts forever, and that drives cheaper, more disposable furniture to be made. I think a lot of people make the mistake of putting the cause-effect the other way around, where you HAVE to buy new furniture because "they don't make it the way they used to," but that may actually be what consumers want.