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Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

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Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#91

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

southerntofu wrote: post #74
bluGill wrote: post #3

This should be the preferred way to ride all local transit systems. One price for the whole family, ride as much as you want for the month (I think month is better then year - easier to budget, and if you move you are not out as much). If people aren't willing to pay for the pass, your system isn't useful and you need to fix that. Because it is unlimited rides people are less likely to think about using the car for t…

> One price for the whole family Why not make it free? It's a public service after all, and it's hard to "abuse" transportation like one can use "too much" free water/electricity.

Most public transit systems are already bankrupt and have to be propped up by taxes collected from other services. Making it free will most likely not increase ridership and will almost definitely make the quality of service lower.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#93

Post by lm28469 »

flemhans wrote: post #86

The BahnCard 100 is 3000 EUR in Germany, giving you full access to all trains. Austria is 1/10th the size of Germany. By this logic, the ticket price should be 300 EUR, not 1095 EUR.

1/10th of the size doesn't mean 1/10th of the costs/usage/maintenance/&c

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#94

Post by bmicraft »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #85
lbriner wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited Germany, they had cleverly ditched most "gateline staff" like you say but then had a reasonable number of ticket inspectors who would check you had a ticket and it was stamped for the current day. Best of both worlds?

Italy does this and I've always wondered how much they must lose over it. Even as a tourist, every time I saw a ticket agent get on the bus/tram, a good number of people would instantly get off. I do like the system better, it's faster in every way. But lost fares would definitely be a concern. Also not sure how that has anything to do with making public transit free honestly.

The ticket usually covers only a fraction of the true price while the rest is subsidized anyways, so it shouldn't matter much

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#95

Post by fnordsensei »

fouric wrote: post #84

I see a detrimental incentive here. Let me explain, and then someone please show me what I'm not getting. We're trying to incentivize public over private transit because the former emits less carbon (in general). However, public transit still costs carbon, so taking less trips total seems to be better for the environment (the "reduce" part of "reduce, reuse, recycle" - kind of). If the marginal cost to a public trans…

Well, presumably the bus is going to go its route whether you're on it or not.

If there's an increase in utilization of public transport, to the point where they need to run each route more often, or introduce additional routes, that'll be seen later on, when the impact of the ticket is evident. At that point, it can be weighed against any changes in private transport behavior.

It's probably premature to take upfront action against overutilization of public transport.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#96

Post by m_ke »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #30

Next stop: Just make public transport free for all reasonably permanent residents (for example, you could get a free ticket for next year when you file your taxes). Anyone who rides public transport instead of expensive and polluting cars is doing a service for the environment.

I've been saying this for a while. I used to live in queens and would take a practically empty bus down a traffic packed metropolitan ave to a coworking space in bushwick. There was no way the bus was breaking even with the 5-10 people that would get on during my trips.

Instead NYC spent $250 million to crack down on fare evasion [1] and installed huge ticket machines at a bunch of bus stops that probably cost >300K each to install.

[1] https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-o...

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#97

Post by ericbarrett »

fouric wrote: post #84

I see a detrimental incentive here. Let me explain, and then someone please show me what I'm not getting. We're trying to incentivize public over private transit because the former emits less carbon (in general). However, public transit still costs carbon, so taking less trips total seems to be better for the environment (the "reduce" part of "reduce, reuse, recycle" - kind of). If the marginal cost to a public trans…

Taking a trip on public transit to pick up groceries (or any similar task) still consumes time and is not convenient. I used to live in Manhattan, go to the shop on foot, and carry my groceries home. I would absolutely buy as much food as I could carry and use, because it was 45 minutes out of my night that could be used for something else, whether I bought 4 days of food or a single head of lettuce. People don't generally joyride public transit unless they have no other options.

In fact, having lived both ways, I'd say you're far more incentivized to do this in a suburban setting with a car, since you're sitting in a private bubble with your own music and climate for every part of the trip except the store itself.

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#98

Post by [deleted] »

fouric wrote: post #84

I see a detrimental incentive here. Let me explain, and then someone please show me what I'm not getting. We're trying to incentivize public over private transit because the former emits less carbon (in general). However, public transit still costs carbon, so taking less trips total seems to be better for the environment (the "reduce" part of "reduce, reuse, recycle" - kind of). If the marginal cost to a public trans…

[deleted]

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#99

Post by ratww »

wasmitnetzen wrote: post #56
ratww wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany it's also around 4k. EUR 4,027 for the BahnCard 100. We're much bigger than Switzerland, though. https://www.bahn.com/en/offers/bahncard/bahncard_100-conditi... EDIT: I can't find info on whether the German one covers city transportation... maybe it doesn't! - EDIT2: It does according to reply!

It covers most local transportation, but not all. > The BahnCard 100 is also valid within the City-Ticket zone of all towns and cities covered by the City-Ticket offering City ticket coverage: https://www.bahn.com/en/offers/tickets-for-local-transport

Oh that's actually a much better deal, then. A Berlin monthly ticket is 86 a month (ok... or 63 with a 1 year commitment), which is already 1/4 (or 1/5) of the 4k...

Re: Klimaticket: All public transport in Austria with a single ticket for 1095 EUR/y

#100

Post by Lekoit »

KronisLV wrote: post #49
quadrifoliate wrote: post #30

Next stop: Just make public transport free for all reasonably permanent residents (for example, you could get a free ticket for next year when you file your taxes). Anyone who rides public transport instead of expensive and polluting cars is doing a service for the environment.

Maybe introduce a gradual shift instead over 50 years or so: with each next year taking the originally expected profits of public transport and gradually add those as taxes for cars while at the same time also reducing the current public transport ticket prices? At the end of those 50 years public transportation could be free and the stubborn car owners or businesses would simply help subsidize more efficient ways of…

Longer you wait more generations are getting used to it slower.

I agree with the other commentir: let's stop talking let's start doing.

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