iPhone remains findable after power off • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#311

Post by quitit » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

chewmieser wrote: post #8

Apple is very clear that this is how things work now. They even give you a dialog prompt now to inform you of this change the first time you try to shut your device off - https://9to5mac.com/2021/06/07/ios-15-find-my-network-can-fi... I'm not sure why this is presented as some new thing, or a gotcha or whatever this is. We've known about it for months... And IMO, it's a positive change although it does sound a little…

Also worth mentioning: express transit pass/ student card system still works after the phone has switched itself off (i.e. reserve mode) It'll work for up to 8 hours until the phone is completely out of juice.

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#312

Post by Aaargh20318 » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 2:33 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #3

AndrewStephens wrote: post #2

Umm, isn’t this, like maybe, a good thing? If I want my very expensive iPhone found, I want it found whether it is on or off. If people are worried about being tracked maybe they should carry around a device that is always broadcasting radio signals to third party towers.

Maybe you don't want to be tracked sometimes, and you expect turning off your device to turn it off.

You cannot be tracked using the Find My network. No one but you can track your phone or tags.

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#313

Post by sneak » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #299

sneak wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suica on an Apple Watch is one of the most convenient things ever in the Tokyo metro or at a konbini.

Do you have to tap it on a turnstile to exit, or is there a flat fare? And is it a separate card or a clone of your physical one so they're interchangeable? p.s. I want to visit Japan someday

You have to tap it to exit, the Tokyo metro is not flat fare.

Loading the card into an Apple wallet transfers everything into the device, the card doesn't work after that (IIRC).

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#314

Post by letitbeirie » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

arthurcolle wrote: post #155

fsckboy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They even give you a dialog prompt now to inform you slightly tangential, I hate being informed of things when I try to do them. I'm in a hurry, I don't want to read all about something now. I wish the dialogs had an "email this to me, willya?" selection, with an opportunity to decide the long term setting that I want.

this lowers engagement metrics, so probably not going to happen

Depends how long your after-update tutorial is.

We ran an A/B test on some 3-pane and 8-pane versions of these at my last job and on the long ones with a "dismiss" button IIRC it took our users something like 3.4 panes to hit it on average. The long ones without the dismiss button got people to view panes 7 and 8 a lot more often but there was a noticeable (albeit small) uptick in users who left the site entirely instead of finishing.

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#315

Post by letitbeirie » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

GekkePrutser wrote: post #288

wyattpeak wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds an awful lot like defences of hundred page EULAs: "So you made a decision not to read it...". No, it was intentionally designed in a way which discourages reading. In the case of this warning, it's possible that it was unintentionally designed in a way which discourages reading, but regardless the fault lies, at least in part, with the design.

I think it's two-fold. Part of EULAs are just discouragement. But part of it is that the legal community doesn't do "simple and clear". Due to the weaselish twisting of words in lawsuits everything has to be airtightly formulated and that causes a bunch of legal terms and extremely explicit descriptions which basically makes legal documents unreadable for normal people. Which also benefits the legal community by keep…

> legal documents unreadable for normal people

One would think that a group of people so familiar with Latin would understand the potential consequences of this. That the masses were able to read Protestant literature but unable to read Catholic literature was one of the major factors that allowed the Reformation to occur.

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#316

Post by dcow » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #296

dcow wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it could be opt out at the end of the first onboard/tutorial.. "Thanks, but I'll explore the software on my own from now on [x]"?

We considered it, but (in this case) the application's use-case is on shared/communual "front-line" machines (hence why we added quick-user-switching), so even though ostensibly a single, human user is logged-in, we honestly don't know who is actually using the machine, and some other user who is just borrowing a machine could easily dismiss a tour/onboarding intended for the actual user who is logged-in. If you thin…

LoB is line of business? What are a few examples of LoB software companies and roles? Walmart secops?

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#317

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

quitit wrote: post #310

dylan604 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be a fan of the Sony camera menu system too

A setting that you would only touch once, versus a device where you are constantly adjusting the settings. Your argument here is pathetically transparent.

pffft. you're taking things way too seriously my friend. i don't care how often it is/is not used, 5 levels deep is deep. it's just not well designed not that it's intentionally hidden. your obtuseness to this fact is even more pathetic

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#318

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

quitit wrote: post #307

dylan604 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does 5 levels deep count as easy to find?

Framing it as "5 levels deep" is only a disingenuous attempt to making it sound more complicated than it really is. Who do you think you're even talking to on here?

People that design UIs

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#319

Post by katbyte » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 3:46 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #197

katbyte wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and keep it wrapped till they get to their hideout which is in a faraday cage and then proceed to wipe it and bypass the activation lock. it's another hassel for thieves which imho is a good thing. Might as well argue "why lock you door when all someone needs is a bump key!"

Except they don't. Thieves don't know how change the ESN of a phone or how to bypass an iCloud Lock. They have fences that either sell the phones for parts or bypass the security features. It's how it works for a few years already now. The only difference is now instead of turning off the phones they'll put it in a metallized plastic bag.

Sure, either way it’s another deterrent.

Also huh you finally gave me a reason why apple may be locking its hardware components now.

Re: iPhone remains findable after power off

#320

Post by GekkePrutser » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

letitbeirie wrote: post #315

GekkePrutser wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's two-fold. Part of EULAs are just discouragement. But part of it is that the legal community doesn't do "simple and clear". Due to the weaselish twisting of words in lawsuits everything has to be airtightly formulated and that causes a bunch of legal terms and extremely explicit descriptions which basically makes legal documents unreadable for normal people. Which also benefits the legal community by keep…

> legal documents unreadable for normal people One would think that a group of people so familiar with Latin would understand the potential consequences of this. That the masses were able to read Protestant literature but unable to read Catholic literature was one of the major factors that allowed the Reformation to occur.

Agreed.. You can kinda see the beginning of this. Nobody takes EULAs seriously. I mean, who even reads them?

The problem is that this was not done by a conscious decision but by a slow progression of a system. Bad actors getting away because of wording not being airtight etc.

Perhaps what could be done is enforcing the key points of legal agreement to appear at the top in clear language. We're already seeing some of such initiatives like Apple's privacy information section in the app store.