171–180 of 269 posts
PHP has so many functions that it's almost impossible to write it without googling php.net, etc.
Not that this matters so much, Google is fast and omnipresent, but in that sense they are definitively not alike.
"Sometimes, I don’t even bother editing the files locally and then transferring them: I ssh to my server and modify the files live."
As at least one other commenter has said, there are disciplined and skilled PHP programmers. If only they were the majority! Sadly, for the PHP ecosystem, a few good apples don't unspoil the bunch.
Here are a few ways PHP's bad culture manifests itself.
1. Cargo culting
The web is filled with questionable recipes for doing this or that in PHP. I've observed a strong tendency of PHP programmers to approach every possible addition of functionality like this: 1) Google search; 2) find source code that supposedly does what's needed; 3) paste that source code in without understanding it or thoughtfully evaluating its appropriateness.
I'm all for learning by reading other people's code. I'm even OK with pasting code when you understand it fully. But cargo culting is bad, and it seems rampant in the PHP world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming
2. Lack of architecture
PHP applications often lack a coherent architecture. It's a typical mistake of new programmers--one that I made many times--to think just enough about architecture to accomplish the task immediately at hand. Naturally, this comes back to bite you when you want to extend your code's capabilities. I see this all the time in PHP applications.
Consider Wordpress. Its API is a random, ad-hoc mess of global functions. Things that should logically be exposed as objects aren't (like posts, for example). The API for retrieving content is different depending on whether you're in the mysterious "Loop" or not. And so on. A more detailed analysis of the lack of architecture in Wordpress can be found here:
http://www.phpvs.net/2009/12/08/an-exercise-in-wordpress-int...
3. Frankenstein coding
Similar to cargo culting, Frankenstein coding is when you cobble together an application from a bunch of off-the-shelf plugins or modules. This is a common practice in the Drupal world specifically, but it applies to a greater or lesser extent in much of the PHP ecosystem.
There are two major problems with this approach. First, the chunks of functionality you download are not likely to match your needs perfectly, so you're forced to make due with software that's almost what you want. Second, the code quality of these modules is often abysmal, and that means security flaws, among other problems.
Sadly, many PHP developers seem perfectly content with this. Even worse, they do this for clients, who get a semi-functional end product at bargain basement prices. That practice gives me a cheap, sleezy vibe, and it doesn't help my impression of the overall PHP ecosystem.
The language itself is so-so in my opinion--not good enough to be my go-to language, but not so terrible I'd refuse to work with it. But somehow, probably due to the language's accessibility, the PHP ecosystem seems to have been swamped by coders who know just enough to get by. And that's my real problem with PHP.
Edit For example, I am thinking of how various templating languages, including Jinja2 (for Python) default to auto-escaping strings you're echoing, but with PHP, you by default have to explicitly think about it and call `htmlentities($x, ENT_QUOTES, 'UTF-8')` all the time.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is little indication that Facebook isn't painful to deal with compared to a functionally identical version of Facebook built in another language/platform. Because someone did it and is profiting from it does not mean they could not have done it better.
Considering Facebook uses Haskell to automate changes to their PHP codebase, I'd imagine PHP isn't doing them any favors.
"I don’t even bother writing tests for most of the PHP I write (obviously, I would be a bit more thorough if this code were destined to be used in a more mission critical web site). Not writing tests is not the only software taboo that I break when I write PHP: I happily mix up presentation and logic all the time. That’s just how PHP is supposed to work" And this is why everybody else hates PHP. It tempts you to writ…
Can you please provide me a resource to learn how to fully separate the code from the markup? I learned web development on ColdFusion then switched to PHP. I certainly understand separation of content from design (HTML to CSS) but I honestly have no idea how to do web development without mixing markup (HTML) with the actual programming. I've done a little C and Java web stuff where my code printed HTML output - ugly.…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is little indication that Facebook isn't painful to deal with compared to a functionally identical version of Facebook built in another language/platform. Because someone did it and is profiting from it does not mean they could not have done it better.
I thought FB's troubles were with mysql not PHP. Turns out mysql has some limiting factors.
There's not a single other company in the world (sans probably Google) that has to deal with performance problems on that level of scale. At that point, I can't imagine anything surviving out-of-the-box. Something has to give, even the language they're using (they're using a subset of PHP that they can run through a custom compiler to C++ machine code, to squeeze every possible CPU cycle out of the servers they have).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A tricycles greatest strength is that it doesn't require balancing on two wheels. For those who can't ride a bicycle, tricycles are great. Once you understand how to use a framework/language like RoR, I don't see how PHP is more useful (unless you have size constraints). ActiveRecord::Base.connection.execute("SELECT foo from bar where x = y") is just as simple as mysql_query("SELECT foo FROM bar WHERE x = y"), and yo…
the db_query() function in drupal also does that abstracting.
From the comments: "PHP is great for its purpose. Quick scripts that generate web content. It’s even OK for small applications. But just like C, PHP is lousy for the medium to large. Any software project with a duration in months or greater that is entirely in PHP is going to be painful." Like Facebook? Or Wordpress? Or Digg? PHP aint perfect, but it's demonstrably suitable for medium to large projects.
That's like saying because the Pyramids were built in stone, we should build all our skyscrapers in stone. I bet that if Facebook, Wordpress or Digg were built in Ruby on Rails or some other modern language, they would be exponentially faster and easier to develop and maintain.
I'll take that bet.
> PHP is exactly like C. Either you like both or you don’t like either, there is no claim you can make about PHP that can’t be made about C as well, and vice versa * C is fast and has tight resource control * C is portable * C has a transitive (==) operator ...
I sort-of felt like this comment was added in his post to get the blood boiling a little. I love his other points about PHP (as I too like PHP), but I felt this was one of those bold statements that was a little sensational and attention grabbing at best. I too find it pretty far fetched.