When users never use the features they asked for • Hacker News Board

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#191

Post by bongoman37 » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #143

duckmysick wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers are good at communicating there's a problem. They are bad at identifying a solution.

They are actually bad at both. They usually start by telling you an imagined solution to the problem they think they have. Then you need to pick that apart to figure out what the real problem is that they have and convince them of a solution that will actually solve their issue. Sales people, depending on their experience, are not a whole lot better. They'll happily sell solutions that don't yet exists for problems t…

One of my engineering bosses once said that the scariest thing in the office is to pass by a sales guy on a phone call who is vigorously nodding his head.

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#192

Post by alvarlagerlof » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

inopinatus wrote: post #150

danjac wrote: post #125

I remember a conversation with an inexperienced PM, who was still in the mode "we need to add X because a customer asked for it". What I've learned - although I've never had a PM role - is not to blindly just give customers what they ask for, but to figure out what they really need. Their feature requests are often a proxy for something else they aren't able to articulate. Another thing to be careful about is adding…

One option is to implement a non-working version of the apparently unnecessary feature. In the unlikely event someone tries to use it, an exception is trapped, and the appearance is given that there's a bug inhibiting the feature use. A brief apology is issued. Then, and only then, does the development team actually implement the feature.

I would run from that product.

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#193

Post by akudha » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 11:39 AM UTC

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #189

I was part of a team that the developed a workflow management system for managing telecom's infrastructure. We were really quite proud of it, it pushed our boundaries during development and we learned a lot of new skills. It was implemented exactly as per the clients spec. It was also quite expensive, my employer billed them €300,000 for the work. They accepted it.... and then didn't use it. There was some use in the…

We buy books that we don’t read, gym membership that we never use, clothes we never wear… I guess corporations are no different?

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#194

Post by mettamage » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 11:43 AM UTC

akudha wrote: post #193

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #189

I was part of a team that the developed a workflow management system for managing telecom's infrastructure. We were really quite proud of it, it pushed our boundaries during development and we learned a lot of new skills. It was implemented exactly as per the clients spec. It was also quite expensive, my employer billed them €300,000 for the work. They accepted it.... and then didn't use it. There was some use in the…

We buy books that we don’t read, gym membership that we never use, clothes we never wear… I guess corporations are no different?

I'd like a well researched blog post on this, outlining when/where this does or doesn't happen.

So if a savvy writer is reading my comment, here is my hope in that it'll be picked up! :)

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#195

Post by Orionos » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:13 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #115

roland35 wrote: post #86

I once stayed at work for 36 hours straight to finish assembling a batch of circuit boards for a customer's prototype. I dropped them off at FedEx for next day AM shipping right before they closed on a Saturday and felt pretty good to just barely make the deadline!! Well Monday morning, the customer assembles the first prototype and it lights on fire. Turns out there were lots of other problems and all my work was fo…

> all my work was for nothing No way. Not for nothing! The customer did not have the added problem of late circuit boards. Even if they could not build their prototype, you did good.

Also, who doesn't like to gather around a nice flaming circuit board on monday morning to warm everybody up and enjoy a coffee

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#196

Post by rasz » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:20 PM UTC

oceanghost wrote: post #118

danbolt wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for updating! I was a little confused since Heroku wasn’t around before the 2005 launch of the Xbox 360, but figured it was shorthand for something else. Given the Xbox One SOC had a lot more security in mind, I could see how Microsoft was more cautious about these things. [1] [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=U7VwtOrwceo&feature=emb_title

Just a lapse of memory and thanks for the benefit of the doubt. Another commenter mentioned turbolinks and I was like "whoooaaaa yes I used that and this timeline doesn't line up at all." This lead to a long internal discussion about when exactly did I play Bioshock and does that line up with my memories :-) I guess I don't mind talking about it so much-- we made a sub $1 component that could compress certain specifi…

I was going to say TPD158 HDMI redriver, but that doesnt compress anything and is made by TI (TPD158).

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#197

Post by johnmato » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:24 PM UTC

This is usually happening with smartphones; there are a lot of consumers who tend to buy the latest model because of its features, but as time passes, they tend to ignore the feature.

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#198

Post by donatj » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:26 PM UTC

marcus_holmes wrote: post #168

danjac wrote: post #125

I remember a conversation with an inexperienced PM, who was still in the mode "we need to add X because a customer asked for it". What I've learned - although I've never had a PM role - is not to blindly just give customers what they ask for, but to figure out what they really need. Their feature requests are often a proxy for something else they aren't able to articulate. Another thing to be careful about is adding…

Also the "feature spiral of death" when a customer's feature request is really just them trying to say "no" politely. There is no amount of features that will make them say "yes". But once they've started down this road it's very difficult for them to admit that they didn't want any of the features they're asking for, they just want you to leave them alone.

I never even considered this. Given the number of times we've built some really stupid feature because a potential big client had it as a requirement, I bet at least a few were just telling us to go away.

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#199

Post by ourmandave » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

Summary at the end.

Writing this story makes all of the problems and solutions sound so obvious. Hindsight...

Let's review a few of the lessons I learned:

Keep your users in the loop, always. Do not go build in isolation.

Don't underestimate engineering challenges that you only have an external view of.

Voice your concerns to your team regularly and often. They might be to solve them far more quickly than you or they might be able to identify what will turn into a major roadblock.

Be ready to pivot.

Users say things for a reason, but there may be more to it than face value.

If you make assumptions about your users, they will find a way to surprise you.

Features will go unused if they aren't easy to use, no matter how great they are.

A user's workflow is everything. (I keep relearning this lesson...)

Users are far more clever than you think.

Re: When users never use the features they asked for

#200

Post by HelloMcFly » Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 12:47 PM UTC

_the_inflator wrote: post #132

danjac wrote: post #125

I remember a conversation with an inexperienced PM, who was still in the mode "we need to add X because a customer asked for it". What I've learned - although I've never had a PM role - is not to blindly just give customers what they ask for, but to figure out what they really need. Their feature requests are often a proxy for something else they aren't able to articulate. Another thing to be careful about is adding…

Exactly these 2 points. I as a PM for a platform may sound arrogant, however I strictly adhere to the phrase: Only what customerS need, not what they want. I also rely on numbers and classification: does this feature help one or more user? Which type? Power User(s)? Everyday normal users? Is this just emotional, a want or need? How much does a user benefit from the change? Can we do better, are we missing something (…

Good doctors don't ask patients what medications they want, they probe about symptoms, context, desired outcomes, etc. I find this a reasonable (not perfect) analogy in my work as a consultant.