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The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

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Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#21

Post by barry-cotter »

pvg wrote: post #10
srcreigh wrote: post #2

The cathedral with the highest nave (ie height of ceiling in the main worship area) is the Hagia Sophia. Its nave is ~7.5m/25ft higher than any other cathedral. Although it still stands, it is technically not a church anymore. The Romans took it for a while and then the Turks. It had been a museum and last year became a mosque again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia

The Romans took it for a while Do you mean the conquest of the 4th crusade? Those people weren't romans, arguably nobody was by the 13th century - perhaps if anyone, the locals had a better claim to it than the conquerors.

The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453 when the Seljuk Turks conquered Constantinople. The Ottoman Emperor's titles included Kaysar-i-Rum. I can't remember the dates but when the Greeks were conquering Crete their co-linguists described the conquerors as Hellenes while they were Romans.

If you go by the criterion of (primary) self-identification there were Romans until the 1800s at least. By unbroken institutional continuity with the bureaucracy of Empire you can argue over whether it ended in 1453 or 1922.

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#22

Post by ashton314 »

emmelaich wrote: post #19

100 years later than most mentioned but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Cathedral is now the largest gothic cathedral.

I was on a trip with my wife, and we had a two-hour layover in Köln (Cologne). We decided to make a run for the cathedral during that time. We sprinted from the airport to the train station, and rode all the way to Hauptbahnhof (central station) which is right next to the cathedral. We got maybe 15 minutes to gawk at the size of that thing before we had to run back to the train station.

Definitely take a day to go see that thing if you get the chance. It's impressive. I'd be sad we didn't get to see it if we were not already so exhausted from seeing so many amazing things in Europe on that trip!

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#23

Post by owyn »

hagbard_c wrote: post #20

Ken Follet's Pillars of the Earth [1] deals with this subject, the building of a cathedral in the fictitious city of "Kingsbridge" in the middle ages. It is, of course, heavily romanticised and weaves the tale of the construction of the cathedral through with a number of family tales but it nevertheless is an interesting read. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillars_of_the_Earth

also a video game! https://store.ste ampowered.com/app/ 234270/Ken_Folletts_The_Pillars_of_the_Earth/

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#24

Post by prox »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #6
srcreigh wrote: post #2

The cathedral with the highest nave (ie height of ceiling in the main worship area) is the Hagia Sophia. Its nave is ~7.5m/25ft higher than any other cathedral. Although it still stands, it is technically not a church anymore. The Romans took it for a while and then the Turks. It had been a museum and last year became a mosque again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagia_Sophia

It's also beautiful. It's pretty interesting to how it's been modified from a church to a mosque, too. Typically mosques are oriented so that when you pray towards Mecca, you're also naturally oriented towards the back of the building. Since Hagia Sophia was originally a church, it's not quite oriented towards Mecca. The carpet is rotated a few degrees clockwise, so you pray a few degrees off of the natural orientati…

The Hagia Sophia is World Wonder. Its size resembles a small mountain, the scale on the inside is just unbelievable!

The blue mosque across the park there is also a feat of engineering. Highly recommended!

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#25

Post by prox »

barry-cotter wrote: post #21
pvg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Romans took it for a while Do you mean the conquest of the 4th crusade? Those people weren't romans, arguably nobody was by the 13th century - perhaps if anyone, the locals had a better claim to it than the conquerors.

The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453 when the Seljuk Turks conquered Constantinople. The Ottoman Emperor's titles included Kaysar-i-Rum. I can't remember the dates but when the Greeks were conquering Crete their co-linguists described the conquerors as Hellenes while they were Romans. If you go by the criterion of (primary) self-identification there were Romans until the 1800s at least. By unbroken institutional con…

1922? What institutions were that of the Empire?

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#26

Post by pvg »

barry-cotter wrote: post #21
pvg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Romans took it for a while Do you mean the conquest of the 4th crusade? Those people weren't romans, arguably nobody was by the 13th century - perhaps if anyone, the locals had a better claim to it than the conquerors.

The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453 when the Seljuk Turks conquered Constantinople. The Ottoman Emperor's titles included Kaysar-i-Rum. I can't remember the dates but when the Greeks were conquering Crete their co-linguists described the conquerors as Hellenes while they were Romans. If you go by the criterion of (primary) self-identification there were Romans until the 1800s at least. By unbroken institutional con…

Sure, but if you take an even mildly expansive definition of 'Roman' then Romans just straight up built the Hagia Sophia and the crusaders of the 4th crusade are even less Roman so maybe we're mostly longwindedly agreeing?

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#27

Post by KingOfCoders »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #18
KingOfCoders wrote: post #5

I've studied in a city with the tallest (christian) church tower (Ulm [0]). I regularily went up the tower, there was a place where you could sit and read and contemplate. I loved it. And because there were a lot of steps, not too many people went there. The most impressive inside of a church to me was Sagrada Família which looks like being in a forrest (or in some Elven structure from Tolkien). [0] https://en.wikipe…

When was that? I distinctly remember the Ulm cathedral tower stairs in late 1970s to have a dangerous spot with missing railings on either side of narrow and worn brick stairs running along a pane-less window, truly for believers only, and outright unthinkable by today's standards for public trespassing areas. Going all the way to the top of eg Freiburg Münschter also has a thrill to it for those scared of height.

It was in the 90s and I can't remember such spots, but the last 20m (?) are very narrow and steep and not a lot of light.

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#28

Post by pvg »

srcreigh wrote: post #14
pvg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Romans took it for a while Do you mean the conquest of the 4th crusade? Those people weren't romans, arguably nobody was by the 13th century - perhaps if anyone, the locals had a better claim to it than the conquerors.

There was a thing called the Holy Roman Empire. [0] An Orthodox seminary professor remarked that it was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire - so you may be onto something. Although I took a history of Christianity course in uni, it was taught by a RC priest, and there were no lessons about the crusades. You did get me curious though, maybe I'll get a book about that whole situation at the time. [0]: https://en.wik…

I wonder if the source of the confusion is this sort of terminology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Empire

it sort of sounds like a synonym for Roman, it was one of the (curiously few!) conquests of Constantinople, etc. It just wasn't actually Roman anything.

Re: The biggest churches in the world: Anglo-Norman eleventh-century cathedrals

#30

Post by TomK32 »

prox wrote: post #25
barry-cotter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Eastern Roman Empire fell in 1453 when the Seljuk Turks conquered Constantinople. The Ottoman Emperor's titles included Kaysar-i-Rum. I can't remember the dates but when the Greeks were conquering Crete their co-linguists described the conquerors as Hellenes while they were Romans. If you go by the criterion of (primary) self-identification there were Romans until the 1800s at least. By unbroken institutional con…

1922? What institutions were that of the Empire?

1922 is the year Kaiser Karl I. of Austria-Hungary died.
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