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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#931

Post by a1369209993 »

lucumo wrote: post #273
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

Yes, exactly. It's just so similar to forum spam. Free speech absolutists were far less in favour of free speech when it came to banning viagra-salesmen. Like the forum moderators, it's perfectly okay for Google to just not want the headache of dealing with pests.

> Free speech absolutists were far less in favour of free speech when it came to banning viagra-salesmen.

Nope. We're in favor of viagra salesmen being able to speak to anyone who wants to listen to them, same as anyone else. It's just that effectively noone wants to listen to them, and we tend to design things accordingly because we're lazy and noone is complaining (that they want to listen to viagra salesmen).

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#932

Post by artificialLimbs »

ip26 wrote: post #930
civilized wrote: post #917

I saw someone post an antivax video in the comments about the toxicity of the spike protein the mRNA vaccine causes the body to manufacture. If you have such concerns, read this: https://health-desk.org/articles/what-do-we-know-about-the-t... The vaccine is injected into muscle and causes a localized immune reaction. The protein doesn't really escape the muscle. So it might damage some muscle cells and capillaries, b…

It seems strange to be talking about whether the spike protein is harmful. Even IF it was, isn’t it better to experience a small amount via the vaccine instead of a large amount via the virus?

For me, the virus was a day long cough, a very mild fever, and about 5 minutes of "can't get a deep breath". So for me, I know which one I'd prefer.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#933

Post by garyfirestorm »

jackson1442 wrote: post #792
ohdannyboy wrote: post #290

I was hesitant for a while and the massive censorship was part of it. I got vaccinated in May and have convinced others to get the shot since the side effects, while existent, appear to be minor compared to the reduction in harmful symptoms. Talking to my doctor is what did it for me. He cleared up most of my concerns and pressed me that my remaining concerns were too nebulous to be useful. If he just said "shut up a…

> She believed that if the vaccine was actually as great as they're saying they'd be able to make more objective goalposts and win arguments instead of stopping them because the other side is too stupid to make their own decisions. The problem I see here is that the (I hesitate to call it this) anti-vax "side" has been shifting goalposts since day n-1. If you've ever talked to someone who's shifted goalposts you'll s…

Shifting goal posts? They said the mRNA vaccines were not safe even before the first trial began. You just can’t have a rational argument with folks who irrationally arrived at a viewpoint.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#934

Post by sneak »

heywherelogingo wrote: post #341

I've already banned youtube, along with all tyrannical platforms. People should be more proactive.

They should, but they won't be, and this sort of head-in-the-sand approach will just mean you personally get left behind, not that YouTube will change.

We live in the world we live in, not the one we should live in.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#935

Post by artificialLimbs »

civilized wrote: post #917

I saw someone post an antivax video in the comments about the toxicity of the spike protein the mRNA vaccine causes the body to manufacture. If you have such concerns, read this: https://health-desk.org/articles/what-do-we-know-about-the-t... The vaccine is injected into muscle and causes a localized immune reaction. The protein doesn't really escape the muscle. So it might damage some muscle cells and capillaries, b…

>> "So far, there is no scientific evidence available that suggests that spike proteins created in our bodies from the COVID-19 vaccines are toxic or damaging our organs."

Is not the same as "...is not toxic and does not damage our organs."

In response you could look at this and decide maybe we're not getting the full story. Or you could look at the rampant censorship (the purpose of the OP) and decide that maybe we're not getting the whole story.

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/federal-govt-whistleblow...

What the health care worker here is saying is that doctors are not reporting adverse effects like they should be.

Yes, Project Veritas makes their videos in hyper-over-produced fashion which seems ... weird, maybe a bit disingenuous. They cut and edit and potentially leave a lot of questions on the table with that. But when I go to comments sections on reposts of this video on various sites, there are numerous health care workers saying "This is how it is, this is what is happening where I am also." Is this foreign propaganda or some coordinated trolling? Maybe.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#936

Post by ip26 »

umvi wrote: post #334
andreskytt wrote: post #239

Free speech used to mean the right to say anything without persecution. Does it now mean the right to have ones opinion be actively globally distributed by a third party? This is very much about fighting two viruses: one biological and the other one informational. We agree to limit contacts between people to stop the one but do not accept the same method to stop the other. Why? In both cases it is vital to ensure the…

> Free speech used to mean the right to say anything without persecution Free speech used to be more of an ubiquitous social courtesy like that, yes. However, that courtesy is rapidly disappearing in our society and free speech is being distilled down to its legal core which is: "you won't go to jail if you say something unpopular" Everything else is on the table including losing your job, being boycotted, being houn…

The hand wringing about boycotts seems a little humorous. A few decades ago wasn’t the GOP the ones telling us if we didn’t like something, instead of regulating it we should vote with our wallets?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#937

Post by LdSGSgvupDV »

mach1ne wrote: post #57

People don't see what the actual problem here is - perhaps because they don't want to see. What is happening is very much the transformation from an open society to one where freedom of speech is limited and certain other individual rights are stripped away. Perhaps not de jure, but de facto. And sure, one might argue that it's for a good cause (even though it's a complex topic). However, the fact is that as this is…

To simplify the question. Do we like to allow the social media to take parts of the position from court?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#938

Post by a1369209993 »

SergeAx wrote: post #577
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

A simple question: do you beleive that suppressing freedom of speech will seriously inclrease a number of vaccinated? I beleive that the best outcome is it will stay around the same. Some sensitive people will calm down and eventually vaccinate, others will become stronger anti-vaxxers, because "if it is forbidden by authorities, it should be somehow true".

> because "if it is forbidden by authorities, it should be somehow true".

Note that that is incorrect, and ironically demonstrates a unjustifiably high degree of trust in authorities. Rather, if someone supports censoring something, it means that they believe that it[0]'s true. But that doesn't mean they're right - their revealed internal beliefs are no more infalliable than their externally claimed ones.

0: Technically, they believe that something in the general class of claims they're attempting to censor (eg some anti-vaxx claim, but not necessarily any of the specific ones that have actually been made) is true.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#939

Post by jlebar »

im3w1l wrote: post #862
jlebar wrote: post #372

It's ironic (or maybe not?) that the comments section here is filled with exactly the kind of anti-vax misinformation that YouTube is trying to take down. To respond to one point I keep reading in here over and over: Getting and recovering from covid does not necessarily give you better protection from disease than getting the vaccine. 1/3 of people who get covid develop no antibodies at all, as compared to 0% of (no…

That's why this thread is at 2000 comments and counting. The censorship is no longer affecting some nebolous "other people". It's coming close. People can tell that they are next in line. That they will have to start practice serious self-censorship or get banned from FAANG-land, isolating them from friends, family and potential love interests.

> they will have to start practice serious self-censorship or get banned from FAANG-land, isolating them from friends, family and potential love interests.

You mean, there could be consequences for our words and actions?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#940

Post by matheusmoreira »

tshaddox wrote: post #882
ohdannyboy wrote: post #290

I was hesitant for a while and the massive censorship was part of it. I got vaccinated in May and have convinced others to get the shot since the side effects, while existent, appear to be minor compared to the reduction in harmful symptoms. Talking to my doctor is what did it for me. He cleared up most of my concerns and pressed me that my remaining concerns were too nebulous to be useful. If he just said "shut up a…

It sounds like both you and your mother have both adopted an epistemology that incorporates the perceived amount of censorship, lies, and coercion performed by proponents of some claim into your discernment of the truth value of that claim. Namely, you both seem to have adopted some level of doubt about pro-vaccine claims because you both perceive that proponents of pro-vaccine claims participate in censorship, lies…

It's unreasonable to ignore these abuses. If the pro-vaccine argument is so persuasive, why must they perpetrate censorship and coercion?

Vaccines are widely recommended because they offer enormous benefits. However, they are not without risk or contraindications. People who claim otherwise are spreading misinformation.

People are right to be worried about the COVID-19 vaccines. Without proper studies, their risks and benefits are unknown. We're discovering this information by observing what's happening to the humans who took the vaccines after the fact. This is less than ideal, to put it mildly.

COVID-19 happens to be a potent enough disease that the potential benefit of these vaccines outweighs the risks. We must still be careful though. It's possible that we'll find that the benefits outweigh the risks only for certain age groups, for example.

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