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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#811

Post by fwsgonzo »

eric_b wrote: post #807

I myself am vaccinated, but I hold no ill will towards those who do not get it; whatever their reason. And yet, the media is conditioning all of us to hate those people. To shame them. To ignore their reason and free-will. The same people who are rabidly pro-vaccine are generally rabidly pro-choice when it comes to abortion. How does that reconcile? How come the government can sometimes tell you what to do with your…

The whole thing is easily explainable: People who walk around spreading COV19 is killing other people. Everyone has a story like that, and it's unfortunate that we have to explain it again and again.

You have free will until you start killing other people over something that you can get for free, that lessens the long-lasting effects of a virus.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#812

Post by bena »

ellyagg wrote: post #795

I wish I could find the post now, but a few months ago on /r/science, research showed that people who didn't believe in global warming were more likely to change their minds when presented with balanced evidence for and against. YouTube has no idea how damaging this is to the cause. Folks who think that policy is a war do not understand people very well or are more interested in grandstanding and point scoring than c…

I found these by searching for "climate change" on /r/science.

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/jseycg/conservativ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/hnlstq/republicans...

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/cm0t6c/republicans...

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/f9wl7g/individuals...

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/km0fzc/a_series_of...

The last looks to be the closest to what you are talking about. But even then, it's not talking about "balanced evidence" in the way you seem to present. Because some people seem to think that to balance the evidence, it's one piece from here, one piece from there, giving them equal consideration.

But it's not, it's considering the evidence without consideration to the other side. We don't give the idea that the moon is made of green cheese the same weight as the idea that it's a big rock. Because the green cheese idea is just stupid. It does not deserve consideration.

And you also have the caveat that it's self-reporting and/or questionnaire driven. I can take someone who doesn't believe in global warming, show them how greenhouse gases cause warming, get them to verbally agree that that's what happening, get them to even agree that the same could apply to the whole world, but then they'll still not believe in global warming. Because they'll have a reason as to why the example doesn't apply. But if I never ask the final question, never ask if I actually changed their mind, I can present the results as if I've converted them.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#813

Post by notacoward »

SergeAx wrote: post #577
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

A simple question: do you beleive that suppressing freedom of speech will seriously inclrease a number of vaccinated? I beleive that the best outcome is it will stay around the same. Some sensitive people will calm down and eventually vaccinate, others will become stronger anti-vaxxers, because "if it is forbidden by authorities, it should be somehow true".

Very tricky, embedding an assumption - that a particular example conforming to long recognized free-speech exceptions is the same as general suppression of free speech - in your question. Have you stopped beating your wife? Maybe, if you're acting in good faith and really are prepared to consider an answer other than the one you've ordained, you could try phrasing the question in a less prejudicial way.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#814

Post by ptaipale »

deadpannini wrote: post #796
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

"Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision?" Yes. Combat disinformation by refuting it. This requires credibility, and censorship is one of the fastest ways to burn that down.

The covid disinformation is like a religion; no amount of researched data is going to change peoples minds. Believe me, I've been patient in explaining facts and referring to data, but people just report fabricated data memes and click the laughing emoji (which in fact should be removed from Facebook...)

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#815

Post by eric_b »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #811
eric_b wrote: post #807

I myself am vaccinated, but I hold no ill will towards those who do not get it; whatever their reason. And yet, the media is conditioning all of us to hate those people. To shame them. To ignore their reason and free-will. The same people who are rabidly pro-vaccine are generally rabidly pro-choice when it comes to abortion. How does that reconcile? How come the government can sometimes tell you what to do with your…

The whole thing is easily explainable: People who walk around spreading COV19 is killing other people. Everyone has a story like that, and it's unfortunate that we have to explain it again and again. You have free will until you start killing other people over something that you can get for free, that lessens the long-lasting effects of a virus.

This is such a horseshit argument. If you're at risk, by all means get the vaccine. You're protected. Job done.

"But what about the children?!?!" is the next common refrain. What about them? Look at the numbers. COVID is not a relevant concern for pediatric public health policy.

https://data.cdc.gov/widgets/9bhg-hcku?mobile_redirect=true

COVID deaths account for less than 1% of deaths in children under 15. I think the other 99% of things killing our kids is a bigger concern, don't you?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#816

Post by GaryTang »

photochemsyn wrote: post #219
mach1ne wrote: post #57

People don't see what the actual problem here is - perhaps because they don't want to see. What is happening is very much the transformation from an open society to one where freedom of speech is limited and certain other individual rights are stripped away. Perhaps not de jure, but de facto. And sure, one might argue that it's for a good cause (even though it's a complex topic). However, the fact is that as this is…

I can see the CEOs and politicians wanting to implement a Chinese-style 'social citizenship score' and if it falls below some level you get banned from all platforms and your travel rights are restricted, etc.

Oh boy. MSM is going to jam the importance of it down our throats. “Social citizen scores are necessary to save lives. Get your score now! Lottery for people who register early.”

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#817

Post by dQw4w9WgXcQ »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #811
eric_b wrote: post #807

I myself am vaccinated, but I hold no ill will towards those who do not get it; whatever their reason. And yet, the media is conditioning all of us to hate those people. To shame them. To ignore their reason and free-will. The same people who are rabidly pro-vaccine are generally rabidly pro-choice when it comes to abortion. How does that reconcile? How come the government can sometimes tell you what to do with your…

The whole thing is easily explainable: People who walk around spreading COV19 is killing other people. Everyone has a story like that, and it's unfortunate that we have to explain it again and again. You have free will until you start killing other people over something that you can get for free, that lessens the long-lasting effects of a virus.

> You have free will until you start killing other people over something

You do a lot of things every day that "have a chance of killing people". You get in a car and send thousands of pounds of metal hurdling down the road, you use your cell phone and drive distractedly in that metal block. Or maybe you visit Home Depot and buy a pack of nails and a few of those drop out in a parking lot and a mother in her van with children run over those nails and later have a blowout. You buy an iPhone made in China or a T-shirt made in Vietnam that employs some child laborer who is exposed to harsh chemicals and they die earlier because you personally wanted some product for your enjoyment... and the list is almost infinite.

At what point do we acknowledge our minimal control over the butterfly effect of causality and cease the woke moralizing?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#818

Post by goatlover »

sensanaty wrote: post #773
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

> Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? Yeah, don't do anything? Why do we have to do anything about """disinformation"""? What'll happen in a few years when the things you stand for and believe in are labelled as disinformation? Because if you start censoring and combating "disinformation" now, it's only a matter of time until the same pr…

This assumes that disinformation can't be identified objectively. Claiming that COVID vaccines implant a microchip is simply false. There's no good reason to allow that sort of claim to spread on social media in the midst of a pandemic where people can die because they believe blatantly false conspiracy theories.

You're committing the slippery slope fallacy. That any kind of censorship leads to the bad kind of censorship, instead of there being a reasonable standard for banning harmful disinformation, and not just differences in political, religious or whatever views. Societies always have to maintain some kind of balance between individual rights and the collective good.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#819

Post by gkop »

eric_b wrote: post #807

I myself am vaccinated, but I hold no ill will towards those who do not get it; whatever their reason. And yet, the media is conditioning all of us to hate those people. To shame them. To ignore their reason and free-will. The same people who are rabidly pro-vaccine are generally rabidly pro-choice when it comes to abortion. How does that reconcile? How come the government can sometimes tell you what to do with your…

I suggest just asking such a person about their principles. You’ll probably get a more helpful response if you refrain from characterizing their opinions as “rabid”. If you bring curiosity, you will disarm them, and perhaps learn something or effect a change in their thinking.

Big govt/regulation vs. small govt/freedom is just one axis. People’s viewpoints on specific issues are based on more than just this axis.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#820

Post by velcrovan »

monocularvision wrote: post #793
ohdannyboy wrote: post #290

I was hesitant for a while and the massive censorship was part of it. I got vaccinated in May and have convinced others to get the shot since the side effects, while existent, appear to be minor compared to the reduction in harmful symptoms. Talking to my doctor is what did it for me. He cleared up most of my concerns and pressed me that my remaining concerns were too nebulous to be useful. If he just said "shut up a…

My wife’s theory is there would be less hesitancy if the vaccines were being distributed through people’s primary care physicians instead of at mass vaccination sites or Walgreens. People may distrust the media, the government and all sorts of other nebulous groups, but they largely trust their doctor.

I got vaccinated as soon as I did in large part because I didn't have to deal with my primary care.
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