Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

peguero.xyz

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 140 posts

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#131

Post by blacksmith_tb »

falcolas wrote: post #38

A somewhat more simplistic method is the hosts file. It won't stop hard-coded IPs, but it still works pretty well in my experience. https://someonewhocares.org/hosts/hosts

Hmm, not sure how that would work if some-merchant.com is sending logs of your browsing to FB or GOOG? You likely don't want to block the shop you're browsing (though maybe you'd leave abd shop on a different site if you knew...). I don't see how ublock, hostfile adblocking/filtering or DNS adblocking/filtering could help, really.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#132

Post by tablespoon »

OJFord wrote: post #128
cycomanic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do you morally justify your work? Do you think this work is valuable? I know I sound confrontational, but I'm seriously wondering about this. In particular because the HN crowd in general has been so highly critical of most adtech, but at the same time a significant portion of people here probably works on it or for one of the companies which are behind it.

Not GP, don't work in ads (actually I think my former colleagues probably think I left because our role pivoted that way) but I'm of the view that 'if I don't someone else will', and so in a way I'd rather learn more about it, maybe be the inside voice to say No this is way too far etc. It certainly doesn't particularly interest me - maybe there are interesting problems if your big on ML - but I wouldn't turn down th…

> but I'm of the view that 'if I don't someone else will', and so in a way I'd rather learn more about it, maybe be the inside voice to say No this is way too far etc.

I can't remember where I saw it, but I once read a rather convincing article that made the case that's the exact attitude the allows immoral things to happen, especially at scale. Basically "participate, but try to change it from the inside" pretty much simplifies into just "participate." You give them your talent, and either your attempts at change fail or are so small to be pointless (e.g. winning the fight to not pack Jews in so tightly in the boxcars that are still going to the concentration camp).

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#133

Post by matheusmoreira »

marketingtech wrote: post #7

This is cool, but not super useful in 2021. Google and Facebook have already moved their tracking technologies beyond frontend network calls due to a rise in browser-level blocking (browser security policies, international regulations, AdBlock, PiHole, etc). The next generation of tracking tech relies on the backend transfer of data between a website and the ad platform, which is invisible to your own network. It als…

> The next generation of tracking tech relies on the backend transfer of data between a website and the ad platform, which is invisible to your own network.

This is a major victory. It proves that technology is effective at bringing about change. It proves we are not powerless. We can force these giants to adapt to us whether they like it or not.

> websites and applications actively transmitting customer data to Google and Facebook

Now we work towards making that illegal.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#134

Post by soraminazuki »

jklinger410 wrote: post #101
chitowneats wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that you would vote for a candidate who promised to impose meaningful regulations on your industry? Even if that meant harming a company you work for / may have equity in? Is there some other solution to this tracking proliferation? My question assumes you believe the work your industry is doing is unethical but that seems to be implied by your posts.

> Is there some other solution to this tracking proliferation? Not in capitalist countries. Serving someone an ad that is actually relevant to them is good business. The government doesn't need web cookies to find you, they can just call your ISP or your phone carrier, or check surveillance cameras, ask your bank, so-on. No one from these private companies has the time to look at the data, you are just a number to th…

> The government doesn't need web cookies to find you

Yet the government collects[1] them [2] in[3] bulk[4].

> Though it might feel like it, you aren't being spied on in any meaningful sense.

Not[5] true[6]. There are real harms done.

> Paid services that don't sell your data are the way to go

It's hard for paid services to compete with free ones, so they're incentivized to sell your data anyways.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism...

[2]: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-in...

[3]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2019/12/11/googl...

[4]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/09/25/tech-su...

[5]: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/07/catholic-priest-...

[6]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/01/grindr-and-okcupid-sel...

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#135

Post by dkersten »

jklinger410 wrote: post #98
fortyseven wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's uh... "cool".

Not everyone can just "choose" what field they want to be in. If I got to choose what I did every day, I'd be a writer or a musician. No ethical concerns there.

Most people who work for eg google s engineers have plenty of other decent paying options, especially right now. Sure, not everyone diodes, but most do.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#136

Post by OJFord »

tablespoon wrote: post #132
OJFord wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, don't work in ads (actually I think my former colleagues probably think I left because our role pivoted that way) but I'm of the view that 'if I don't someone else will', and so in a way I'd rather learn more about it, maybe be the inside voice to say No this is way too far etc. It certainly doesn't particularly interest me - maybe there are interesting problems if your big on ML - but I wouldn't turn down th…

> but I'm of the view that 'if I don't someone else will', and so in a way I'd rather learn more about it, maybe be the inside voice to say No this is way too far etc. I can't remember where I saw it, but I once read a rather convincing article that made the case that's the exact attitude the allows immoral things to happen, especially at scale. Basically "participate, but try to change it from the inside" pretty muc…

I'm not saying I'd be actively trying to blow things up from inside, my job wouldn't last long, and my whole point was that I'm not an activist about it: someone's getting paid for it and it may as well be me (if I don't have a better offer).

In your horrible analogy, I suppose what I mean is something like (but come on, not remotely close to!) 'why are we burning books and looting art, this is terrible, oh well someone else will if not me, and hey, I like art', but then 'you want to do a holocaust?! No, that is absurdly too far, whistle blow'.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#137

Post by jklinger410 »

soraminazuki wrote: post #134
jklinger410 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there some other solution to this tracking proliferation? Not in capitalist countries. Serving someone an ad that is actually relevant to them is good business. The government doesn't need web cookies to find you, they can just call your ISP or your phone carrier, or check surveillance cameras, ask your bank, so-on. No one from these private companies has the time to look at the data, you are just a number to th…

> The government doesn't need web cookies to find you Yet the government collects[1] them [2] in[3] bulk[4]. > Though it might feel like it, you aren't being spied on in any meaningful sense. Not[5] true[6]. There are real harms done. > Paid services that don't sell your data are the way to go It's hard for paid services to compete with free ones, so they're incentivized to sell your data anyways. [1]: https://www.wa…

It's possible for someone to buy public data and match that with their first party data from your account on their service in order to anonymize you. But it's unlikely. This same tactic was used in Afghanistan to find terrorists.

My point being most people aren't being hunted by anyone in particular like the US Government or the Catholic Church. It's expensive to set up these honeypot apps, and to buy this data, and spend the time to de-anonymize it. Frankly that church story is kind of insane.

Your second example is not really relevant IMO.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#138

Post by tablespoon »

OJFord wrote: post #136
tablespoon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I'm of the view that 'if I don't someone else will', and so in a way I'd rather learn more about it, maybe be the inside voice to say No this is way too far etc. I can't remember where I saw it, but I once read a rather convincing article that made the case that's the exact attitude the allows immoral things to happen, especially at scale. Basically "participate, but try to change it from the inside" pretty muc…

I'm not saying I'd be actively trying to blow things up from inside, my job wouldn't last long, and my whole point was that I'm not an activist about it: someone's getting paid for it and it may as well be me (if I don't have a better offer). In your horrible analogy, I suppose what I mean is something like (but come on, not remotely close to!) 'why are we burning books and looting art, this is terrible, oh well some…

> someone's getting paid for it and it may as well be me (if I don't have a better offer).

And maybe that person is worse at it than you, or without you they don't have enough people with the right skills to succeed.

> In your horrible analogy, I suppose what I mean is something like (but come on, not remotely close to!) 'why are we burning books and looting art, this is terrible, oh well someone else will if not me, and hey, I like art', but then 'you want to do a holocaust?! No, that is absurdly too far, whistle blow'.

Fat lot of good whistle-blowing would do in that example.

There's also the aspect where the last step was too far for you, but you helped take every step before that which enabled that last step to be taken without you.

If your attitude is "someone's getting paid for it and it may as well be me," you probably should just drop idea that you could change things from the inside, since it amounts to a BS rationalization to take the money.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#139

Post by samstave »

google234123 wrote: post #84
samstave wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True - however, IMO, the value is in the awareness of tracking and the knowledge of how to block things as such. Its better to know how your network operates that you rely on for your daily life than to know nothing about its internals. My biggest issue as I age is that I FORGET how to do some of the higher level networking that I used to know innately - and I also lose interest in doing such things and become lazy,…

Who cares about the intricacies of building a pc? You do it every 5 years and it takes a few hours…

I care about no longer remembering something I used to be considered a master at previously. :-(

I don't like knowledge evaporation.

Re: Sirubo: Packet filtering to block Google and Facebook tracking

#140

Post by jklinger410 »

lilsoso wrote: post #126
jklinger410 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works in ads, this is a spot-on summation of the current state of tracking. And that's without getting into how machine learning can use seemingly unrelated data points to learn more about you than you could imagine. At this point if you have even the most basic connections (US bank account, home owner, gps, insurance, a car) the more sophisticated tracking methods can still learn about you and reach y…

So this means privacy on the internet is now gone? Can you recommend methods to avoid the tracking?

This is a bit old, but to answer your question.

You need a pi-hole hooked to your open source router that runs traffic through a VPN. You need to use cash or stay at a credit union that doesn't sell your information (if anyone has found one of these please let me know).

You need to not use a cell phone and stay off of most social media.

You need to not utilize credit. You need to use single-use email addresses for everything you sign up for, and furthermore to trust the system you use to create those addresses.

You need to use an OS like TAILS or QUBES and never stay logged in to any platform, reject all optional cookies and flush non-optional ones. There are going to be services that won't let you operate this way.

You need to get stuff shipped to a PO Box. You somehow need to stay out of the healthcare system.

There are some stuff that's out of my expertise like having a good lawyer to make sure records of your activity are expunged and that you are aggressively wiping your credit score if anything does pop up.

A good way to achieve some of this would be to found an LLC and buy your house and car through it instead of your personal name.

It also would be a good idea to live somewhere where you can obstruct wifi and cell signals from your house without getting into a bunch of trouble, and make sure your guests simply don't bring their devices into your home.

Post reply on HN