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YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

washingtonpost.com

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Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#631

Post by prpl »

listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

Would the alternative, leaving it up, weaken her position? I don’t see a scenario where a decision by Youtube removes her hesitancy, TBH.

Knowing some hesitant people, the only thing that changed their minds was their MD.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#632

Post by NotSammyHagar »

ohdannyboy wrote: post #290

I was hesitant for a while and the massive censorship was part of it. I got vaccinated in May and have convinced others to get the shot since the side effects, while existent, appear to be minor compared to the reduction in harmful symptoms. Talking to my doctor is what did it for me. He cleared up most of my concerns and pressed me that my remaining concerns were too nebulous to be useful. If he just said "shut up a…

I'm glad you got vaccinated. But... Can you expand on why you were hesitant because of censorship? Because if there were lots of serious problems with the vaccine, they'd be covered in a second on fox news. Meanwhile, a lot of people are hugely influenced by false stories on social media, it's just a fact, with recent examples being things like ivermectin and the 2016 presidential election conspiracies, and don't forget q-anon.

Since covid is so deadly if you get it, and there are basically almost no cases of serious health issues with vaccination and furthermore, vaccination is also almost guaranteed to protect you from serious cases, why wouldn't you get it? Have you heard rumors of some problems from vaccination?

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#634

Post by sneak »

SergeAx wrote: post #577
ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

A simple question: do you beleive that suppressing freedom of speech will seriously inclrease a number of vaccinated? I beleive that the best outcome is it will stay around the same. Some sensitive people will calm down and eventually vaccinate, others will become stronger anti-vaxxers, because "if it is forbidden by authorities, it should be somehow true".

A private site like YouTube choosing to censor content on its own servers is not suppressing freedom of speech.

In fact, it is YouTube exercising freedom of speech by wielding editorial control over their own website.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#635

Post by MarcoZavala »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #632
ohdannyboy wrote: post #290

I was hesitant for a while and the massive censorship was part of it. I got vaccinated in May and have convinced others to get the shot since the side effects, while existent, appear to be minor compared to the reduction in harmful symptoms. Talking to my doctor is what did it for me. He cleared up most of my concerns and pressed me that my remaining concerns were too nebulous to be useful. If he just said "shut up a…

I'm glad you got vaccinated. But... Can you expand on why you were hesitant because of censorship? Because if there were lots of serious problems with the vaccine, they'd be covered in a second on fox news. Meanwhile, a lot of people are hugely influenced by false stories on social media, it's just a fact, with recent examples being things like ivermectin and the 2016 presidential election conspiracies, and don't for…

No post body was provided.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#636

Post by ddingus »

adamrezich wrote: post #600
ddingus wrote: post #539

This won't end well. Suppression drives people to seek it more --and where they find it, they will have stronger investments in the ideas and it all will be harder to discuss to a rational conclusion.

does anyone else think that this is sort of the intended goal? not necessarily by YouTube in this case specifically but in a sort of meta sense, for many things such as this, in the past decade or so. it's almost as though those in power benefit when those who aren't in power are divided along ever more axes, axes which didn't exist only a few short years ago, but whose division is more significant than anything we'v…

I can't speak to intent, but I do recognize divided populace as being ineffective in the body politic.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#637

Post by jmull »

mariodiana wrote: post #65

I think we have to ask if this won't have a chilling effect on open discussion by moderate voices. I'm subscribed to the channel of an M.D. on YouTube who discusses COVID-19, vaccines, etc. He is very careful to (repeatedly) point out that he is vaccinated, he has personally vaccinated hundreds of patients, he encourages everyone to speak to their doctor and follow their recommendations, believing that the vaccine is…

> It's not the wackos we should be worrying about. It's the stifling of legitimate public debate, the stifling of legitimate voices who find themselves in the minority.

We should be worrying about the wackos -- and stifling legitimate voices who find themselves in the minority.

I doubt I will agree with exactly where Google draws the line between whacko and legitimate voice, but I have no doubt the line should be drawn.

I also think there's no doubt Google has the right (and responsibility, IMO) to draw the line on their platforms.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#638

Post by syshum »

duhast wrote: post #395
Nesze wrote: post #362

Age old follow-up question. Who decides what anti-vaccine content is? Who is going to draw the fine line? How simple (i.e. black and white) is to make this distinction? Do you trust that person / entity making these decisions for you and your peers? But even without defending free speach, looks to me that when you start censoring you just create multiple new problems with zero solution. So even from a design point of…

Thought experiment: Would you be making the same points if the debate was about ISIS propaganda? Or Holocaust denialism? Or content encouraging child exploitation? Viral videos encouraging suicides? Wouldn't it be suddenly obvious that these videos must be taken down immediately, accounts banned and that platform owners are responsible? Or would you advocate for free speech and watch as the algorithm encourages more…

Not the OP, but You are not going to like my answer....

My Answer is simple "Unless the content constitutes a "True Threat" [1] as understood under US Constitutional Standards it should be allowed"

As to suicide, I advocate for assisted suicide to be Safe, Legal and Rare. if a person chooses to end their life that choice absent a clear and confounding mental health crisis should be respected by society. This idea that suicide is always wrong is simply false, there are all manner of reasons why one can logically choose suicide.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_threat

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#639

Post by davesque »

listless wrote: post #174

My wife is very vaccine hesitant, and every time they make a move like this to block content or take it down, it only strengthens her position. She thinks they’re taking it down because they don’t want people to know the truth. The only thing worse than bad ideas is the suppression of bad ideas. It’s tragic that we knew this at some point, but are going to have to figure it all back out again the hard way.

I feel as though there's actually nothing that would convince people like your wife to get vaccinated. Or at least the ultimate deciding factor cannot be predicted or understood. The problem is that people begin to personally identify with an opinion that they hold. And then they'll find any reason or justification for holding onto it.

CDC says get vaccinated? Oh, but they said not to wear masks early on. They can't be trusted. Medical researchers release studies showing vaccine effectiveness? Oh, but look at this random other study that shows otherwise. YouTube decides to moderate vaccine misinformation more strongly? Oh, what are they trying to hide? What are they scared of?

You can keep asking questions and doubting as long as you want if you're emotionally attached to an idea. Welcome to the mind of an anti-vaxxer.

What this all means is that we shouldn't take into account the effect YouTube's action will have on anti-vaxxers because we'd see the same effect regardless of what we do.

Re: YouTube is banning anti-vaccine activists and blocking all anti-vaccine content

#640

Post by [deleted] »

ookblah wrote: post #50

Someone want to throw out there a better way to combat disinformation than just armchair criticizing their decision? I almost feel like people are siding with the anti-vaxxers out of "principle". Just a no win situation. It's too easy for bad characters to screw up an entire system with little effort (look at trolls, spammers, etc). Either you moderate everyone and slippery slope down into censorship where the tools…

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